Baltimore Development News

[delawhere]

Originally Posted by pfd103

Not to mention the fact that ridership continues to climb as the cost and time increase for other forms of commuting in the area.

Not to mention the fact 1/3 of the city doesn't have access to a vehicle. There's no compelling argument against transit, ever.

[LtBk]

Originally Posted by delawhere

Not to mention the fact 1/3 of the city doesn't have access to a vehicle. There's no compelling argument against transit, ever.

And spur more TOD in Baltimore metro area.

[30 Floors Up]

I'm confused again. Morton's, the restaurant in the Sheraton Inner Harbor, is about to renovate.

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...use-plans.html

Isn't this the same Sheraton that is going to be demolished for a new converntion center/arena? Why renovate something that is going to be demolished? Or is it?
~~~~~

All construction has stopped on the burned out shell of a building on Baltimore Street that lit up the sky a year ago. A new "For Sale" sign has gone up.

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by Coldspring

... I think most of the companies are moving down there, not only because its the 'IN' neighborhood for commercial and office development ...

That's definitely a factor. There's also the "like attracts like" factor. Just as Redwood Street was once called "The Wall Street of the South" since that's where all the finance-related firms were located (until Charles Center was built), so too are HP-HE big lures for financial firms.

[KLynch]

There is a lot of client to client showmanship in big business. Harbor East looks spectacular, CBD looks cold, dark and lifeless. Where would your rather schmooze a client... no answer needed.

The focus needs to be on making CBD look more like Harbor East, instead of sitting around wondering why people don't want to put their office there. Ask this question, would you want to put your business there? They've done a good job making the SE and SW corners of the CBD look good thanks to UMD and Powerplant live. Now the Charles Streets, Calvert Streets, and Baltimore Streets need to pick up the slack, as well as the NW corner, which will be in the works as soon as the lawsuits stop.

[k25150]

Originally Posted by LtBk

What makes you think Baltimore metropolitan area doesn't need a mass transit system? I don't know if people here have said it before, but good mass transit makes more sense in a place like Baltimore rather than sprawling auto-centric cities like Houston and Charlotte.

We already have mass transit. The only time the light rail is busy is during Raven's games. People like their cars. This is parochial Baltimore not some cosmopolitan mecca. It's a relatively small metro area. By the time you park, wait for the train to get downtown, you'd be there in your car. And the population of the metro area doesn't justify any new train systems.

If rail is so wonderful why aren't the private firms gunning to get into the business? They are losers. That's why they are subsidized. I'm sure it's easy to find out how much an Amtrak ticket would be if they weren't subsidized by US! Let's just say there would be triple the flights from BWI to NY if Amtrak wasn't subsidized.

[k25150]

Originally Posted by delawhere

Not to mention the fact 1/3 of the city doesn't have access to a vehicle. There's no compelling argument against transit, ever.

Uh how about cost? What a dumb statement. The suds from the rail soapbox have clouded your thinking.

Again, we already have transit for the people who don't have a car. Do you want to spend money loaned from China to build a slick new rail system just because it's a cool urban thing to do? Next you'll want all the tax payers to buy the 1/3 who ride the bus everyday a car because it's not fair.

Other compelling arguments against mass transit are low population, geography and distance. These aren't issues around here but are in other cities.

[Mirage52]

If Baltimore is on the rise again -- and let's hope it is, meaning more people are moving closer to the city, or inside of it -- it will need a better mass transit system, whether that means light rail, or heavy rail, or upgrading the bus service to BRT. There's no two ways about it.

Traffic on 695 sucks. We need to incentivize people to get off the roads and onto trains. But right now trains don't go that many places and buses are too slow and are driving on the crowded streets.

I understand there is no money. So chances are it wont get built. But it should be. People act like Baltimore will always be the way it is today. Whether for better or worse, it will change.

And spare me the subsidy crap. Gas is subsidized. Roads are subsidized. Just because mass transit is too doesn't make it some liberal money guzzling black hole.

[LtBk]

Over 620,000 and over 2 million in the metropolitan area is not big enough? There are cities smaller than Baltimore that have good transit. I said this before, but the problem not lack of money, but politics and anti-transit mentality that prevails in many parts of the country makes it very difficult to built anything but a short light rail spur or a DMU commuter rail line that shares with freight trains.

[k25150]

Originally Posted by Mirage52

If Baltimore is on the rise again -- and let's hope it is, meaning more people are moving closer to the city, or inside of it -- it will need a better mass transit system, whether that means light rail, or heavy rail, or upgrading the bus service to BRT. There's no two ways about it.

Traffic on 695 sucks. We need to incentivize people to get off the roads and onto trains. But right now trains don't go that many places and buses are too slow and are driving on the crowded streets.

I understand there is no money. So chances are it wont get built. But it should be. People act like Baltimore will always be the way it is today. Whether for better or worse, it will change.

And spare me the subsidy crap. Gas is subsidized. Roads are subsidized. Just because mass transit is too doesn't make it some liberal money guzzling black hole.

Good choice of words. It is a black hole. Gas is subsidized? Oil extraction and refinement might be but that allows us to compete globally. Then you get into unions and corp. tax and absurd regulations. I don't think you're talking about this.

But gas subsidies to the end user? Is O'Malley giving out gas stamps now? How about gas it taxed. Roads are paid for by taxes and tolls and more taxes and more tolls. There is a roll for government and one of those roles is funding road construction. But I won't spare you the subsidy crap when the federal government shouldn't be in the transportation business ie, Amtrak. Look at Europe. They subsidize everything and are on the brink. We are next. Trains are great if they are feasible and follow common sense not political or urban chic dogma.

But at this time in Baltimore they aren't. Neither is a high speed rail from Tampa to Orlando. F'ing ridiculous.

[k25150]

Originally Posted by LtBk

Over 620,000 and over 2 million in the metropolitan area is not big enough? There are cities smaller than Baltimore that have good transit. I said this before, but the problem not lack of money, but politics and anti-transit mentality that prevails in many parts of the country makes it very difficult to built anything but a short light rail spur or a DMU commuter rail line that shares with freight trains.

Where is the demand or outcry for new trains around here besides this forum and maybe some poor without cars? Many poor in America have cars and have HD TV's too so I don't think the poor are demanding this either.

People love their cars and will always love their cars. People feel safe in their cars. Just because you guys hate all things suburbia doesn't mean everyone else does.

Let's see, should I take my new car from Canton to Catonsville or ride a dirty old bus loaded with punk kids that stops every mile? How about that brand new train then? Well the nanny government pays for it even though we tax payers can't afford it and didn't ask for it, but that too might have the punk kids on it plus I'll have to wait at the station and call a cab on the other end. I think I'll just drive.

[KLynch]

Now that the height and location of Exelon is decided, I guess arguing about mass transit will take back over center stage.

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by k25150

... People love their cars and will always love their cars. ...

It's beyond love. People have built their lives around cars. Cars are the office away from the office, the locker to store sports equipment between games, the taxi for the various kids and elderly in their lives and -- unfortunately for more than a few people -- home when there is no home.

There're even a whole nest of non-profits dedicated to making cars available for poor people. Even the Abell Foundation helped out with this.

I like mass transit and believe there's a conservative case to be made for it.

But if the argument for mass transit in any way involves making car ownership more expensive or more of a hassle than it already is (e.g. the Circulator being funded by an additional fee on people using city parking garages, which is really obnoxious) most people are going to respond like k and move to places where they can own a car and not get screwed for using it.

[k25150]

Yup.

[Infoman]

I believe that if they find a way to diverse the population more along the tracks then maybe, just maybe the stations could become busier. I rode the metro (or whatever its called in Baltimore) and it felt pathetic to me, not the infrastructure or atmosphere but the lack of ridership. It's not like Maryland cant allocate the funds to build more lines; its just the one question will residents ride it?

Recently I've been studying the history of SanFran. and it's pretty interesting to see how bad off they were at one point (but they were making wonderful music during this period as well), now they have a Union Square which is among the most upscale areas in the world. If they can make a transition into the city they are today; I'm positive Baltimore can as well. We have just as many valuable assets as they do although we may never be on their level. If Baltimore would have gotten its act together a while ago, I would have said "dont build all the upscale stores in Towson, but rather somewhere near Federal Hill".

I would start by cutting taxes (not just in Baltimore but statewide because excuse my language but us losing a lot of business to VA isn't making any damn sense ,

[Eerik]

Plain and simple: people will only ride mass transit if it makes their trip more convenient -- be it they arrive at their destination faster or cheaper.

In the long run (50-100 years) the market will decide if mass transit (rail) becomes the primary mode of transportation once again. Government should keep its nose out of it; when policy and laws begin to manipulate where and how people live, then we have obviously compromised our freedoms.

While there are exceptions, currently much of the "transit oriented development" we see is more of a fad -- a trendy thing to do -- rather than real sustainable development.

If the public chooses to embrace such development, fine. It's their choice. But the government should not make it a policy to force all the "square pegs" into the "round holes."

[30 Floors Up]

Originally Posted by Eerik

Plain and simple: people will only ride mass transit if it makes their trip more convenient -- be it they arrive at their destination faster or cheaper.

In the long run (50-100 years) the market will decide if mass transit (rail) becomes the primary mode of transportation once again. Government should keep its nose out of it; when policy and laws begin to manipulate where and how people live, then we have obviously compromised our freedoms.

While there are exceptions, currently much of the "transit oriented development" we see is more of a fad -- a trendy thing to do -- rather than real sustainable development.

If the public chooses to embrace such development, fine. It's their choice. But the government should not make it a policy to force all the "square pegs" into the "round holes."

Then I suppose government should keep its nose out of the road business too. Lets level the playing field. No more Intercounty Connectors. No more widening of existing roads. Then, let the people decide when every major road becomes a parking lot 24/7.

The fact is the car is so popular because government made it that way by providing cheap gas and building free infrastructure.

Before government became involved in the road business, mass transit was the predominate mode of transportation and MOST MASS TRANSIT IN THE COUNTRY WAS RUN BY PRIVATE INDUSTRY. Remember the privately owned Baltimore Transit Company which ran the street car system here? Government killed that when the citizens used all the subsidized gas and free infrastructure instead of the streetcars. Furthermore, the large increase of cars on city streets clogged the streetcar rails so much that the level of mass transit service actually went down.

In the spirit of debate, I say this. All the republican free market capitalists here should be on mass transit's side because it was once, and could be again, privately run. Oh, but I forgot. That would effect YOUR entitlement and everyone knows that your own personal entitlement isn't an entitlement at all. That word should just be reserved for welfare mothers and programs for the poor!

[rockin'.baltimorean]

Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up

I'm confused again. Morton's, the restaurant in the Sheraton Inner Harbor, is about to renovate.

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...use-plans.html

Isn't this the same Sheraton that is going to be demolished for a new converntion center/arena? Why renovate something that is going to be demolished? Or is it?
~~~~~

All construction has stopped on the burned out shell of a building on Baltimore Street that lit up the sky a year ago. A new "For Sale" sign has gone up.

agreed...

frankly, I don't see this new hotel/arena being built for another 5 years or so, but I'm with you on this point. To build/add anything to this site right now is pointless...

[pfd103]

Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up

Then I suppose government should keep its nose out of the road business too. Lets level the playing field. No more Intercounty Connectors. No more widening of existing roads. Then, let the people decide when every major road becomes a parking lot 24/7.

The fact is the car is so popular because government made it that way by providing cheap gas and building free infrastructure.

Before government became involved in the road business, mass transit was the predominate mode of transportation and MOST MASS TRANSIT IN THE COUNTRY WAS RUN BY PRIVATE INDUSTRY. Remember the privately owned Baltimore Transit Company which ran the street car system here? Government killed that when the citizens used all the subsidized gas and free infrastructure instead of the streetcars. Furthermore, the large increase of cars on city streets clogged the streetcar rails so much that the level of mass transit service actually went down.

In the spirit of debate, I say this. All the republican free market capitalists here should be on mass transit's side because it was once, and could be again, privately run. Oh, but I forgot. That would effect YOUR entitlement and everyone knows that your own personal entitlement isn't an entitlement at all. That word should just be reserved for welfare mothers and programs for the poor!

I second this.

To K...you should ride the light rail at 5PM any day. It's usually pretty packed anywhere close to downtown. The MARC lines are bursting at the seems (which is why they're doing a major upgrade). Penn Station is the 8th busiest station in the country, and I believe BWI is #9. Baltimore is quickly becoming a major mass transit player...let's build a system to match.

[PeterSmith]

Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up

Then I suppose government should keep its nose out of the road business too. Lets level the playing field. No more Intercounty Connectors. No more widening of existing roads. Then, let the people decide when every major road becomes a parking lot 24/7.

The fact is the car is so popular because government made it that way by providing cheap gas and building free infrastructure.

Before government became involved in the road business, mass transit was the predominate mode of transportation and MOST MASS TRANSIT IN THE COUNTRY WAS RUN BY PRIVATE INDUSTRY. Remember the privately owned Baltimore Transit Company which ran the street car system here? Government killed that when the citizens used all the subsidized gas and free infrastructure instead of the streetcars. Furthermore, the large increase of cars on city streets clogged the streetcar rails so much that the level of mass transit service actually went down.

In the spirit of debate, I say this. All the republican free market capitalists here should be on mass transit's side because it was once, and could be again, privately run. Oh, but I forgot. That would effect YOUR entitlement and everyone knows that your own personal entitlement isn't an entitlement at all. That word should just be reserved for welfare mothers and programs for the poor!

Agreed. Rail technology allows us to transport people and goods faster and less expensively, and, in many cases, more efficiently, than private vehicle transportation. Road construction and maintenance, parking, oil exploration and production, automotive research and development, and externalities, such as pollution cleanup and healthcare costs, are all subsidized. Gas taxes do not cover the costs of gas; tolls and registrations do not cover the costs of roads. The difference comes from general revenue dollars paid out of income, sales, and property taxes. If there were a level playing field, the market would absolutely decide in favor of higher mass transit use.

We can talk about whether it is worthwhile to subsidize our auto-centric culture because we value it, but you do not get to hide behind the false statement that the costs of mass transit are prohibitive. Simply, it is not true. Subsidizing our car culture is one of the greatest expenditure items on the national balance sheet.

And k, on the subject of borrowing money from China to build transit, that is exactly what Los Angeles has proposed doing if America Fast Forward does not pass. To the tune of $40 billion, LA would seek private equity in China to fund its metro expansion. http://la.streetsblog.org/2012/01/30...ce-and-plan-b/

Also, that is the first I’ve heard anyone argue that road construction is a federal power but rail construction is not. How does that work?