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Old February 3rd, 2012, 04:01 PM   #15961
PeterSmith
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M on Madison has completed the fourth floor. I thought it was supposed to be five stories, but it looks like it may have topped out.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 04:22 PM   #15962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
Where is the demand or outcry for new trains around here besides this forum and maybe some poor without cars? Many poor in America have cars and have HD TV's too so I don't think the poor are demanding this either.

People love their cars and will always love their cars. People feel safe in their cars. Just because you guys hate all things suburbia doesn't mean everyone else does.

Let's see, should I take my new car from Canton to Catonsville or ride a dirty old bus loaded with punk kids that stops every mile? How about that brand new train then? Well the nanny government pays for it even though we tax payers can't afford it and didn't ask for it, but that too might have the punk kids on it plus I'll have to wait at the station and call a cab on the other end. I think I'll just drive.
You obviously don't ride the bus very often.

I find it funny and ironic how you're as blindly against mass transit and the people who use it (as well as blindly ignorant about it) as the people you accuse of being anti-suburbs. Fight fire with fire, I guess.

Actually, not everyone who is pro-transit hates the suburbs. I live in Frederick Co. for crying out loud...and I love it. I enjoy driving to a parking lot in the county, parking my car in a free and safe place, and taking a train (or bus) to the hustle and bustle of the city. It's cheaper, and many times, it's easier and faster than driving.

But whatever. You've got your beliefs and you're going to stick with them no matter how far from reality they are. Oh and good luck parking in Canton and keeping that new car looking new.

Last edited by Mirage52; February 3rd, 2012 at 06:44 PM.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 04:53 PM   #15963
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The cost of parking

Roads and cars also require parking on both ends of the trip. Somebody pays for the parking, which seems to rarely come up in the transit vs. road conversation. Parking garages and parking lots have to be paid for by government or the consumer or the private industry. Regardless, it is not free. Transit to our downtown, stadium, hospitals, convention centers, retail areas and so forth frees businesses, government, and residential developers from the cost of building so much parking. In turn, it leads to less road congestion and if aesthetics matter, less ugly garages and parking lots.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 05:59 PM   #15964
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Red Line Now PAC has updated their website...looks nicer.

http://red-line-now.com/
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 06:17 PM   #15965
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The only time the light rail is busy is during Raven's games.
From personal experience, I can tell you this statement is not true.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 06:50 PM   #15966
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Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
Then I suppose government should keep its nose out of the road business too. Lets level the playing field. No more Intercounty Connectors. No more widening of existing roads. Then, let the people decide when every major road becomes a parking lot 24/7.

The fact is the car is so popular because government made it that way by providing cheap gas and building free infrastructure.

Before government became involved in the road business, mass transit was the predominate mode of transportation and MOST MASS TRANSIT IN THE COUNTRY WAS RUN BY PRIVATE INDUSTRY. Remember the privately owned Baltimore Transit Company which ran the street car system here? Government killed that when the citizens used all the subsidized gas and free infrastructure instead of the streetcars. Furthermore, the large increase of cars on city streets clogged the streetcar rails so much that the level of mass transit service actually went down.

In the spirit of debate, I say this. All the republican free market capitalists here should be on mass transit's side because it was once, and could be again, privately run. Oh, but I forgot. That would effect YOUR entitlement and everyone knows that your own personal entitlement isn't an entitlement at all. That word should just be reserved for welfare mothers and programs for the poor!
Very well said. I also want to add that the government doesn’t have to make car ownership more expensive, it just needs to stop subsidizing it and it will turn out to be much more expensive. There are also many external costs caused by the car as well that are hard to compute but need to be factored into the analysis.

• Loss of human life; from the times - An estimated 32788 people were killed in traffic accidents in 2010. Deaths on light, heavy and commuter rail was 253. Can’t really put a number on that.
• Pollution generated by the vehicles themselves.
• Traffic and DWI enforcement and litigation.
• Car insurance. What a waste, how about a few billions being spend on research and development rather than protecting motorist from suing each other?
• Ambulance chaser car crash lawyers.
• Operation and maintenance of the road system. Besides the obvious such a repaving and repairing bridges, thing about the money and energy and time it takes to manage the traffic and street light systems. Trying to manage the behavior of individuals on the road is infinitely more expensive and complex than keeping trains running safely.
• Some would even say our presence in the Middle East is about the stability of our oil supply to feed our car habit. I am not debating if this is correct or not, but if it is, it’s a huge external cost to use in the form of military action and diplomatic efforts (foreign aid) to keep the flow going.

I think the fact is that the car has become an expensive necessity in our society and it has been a huge reason for loss in our standing as the world’s more powerful nation. Eliminating waste makes sense in business, so why is waste (in the form of time, energy, land our environment) resulting in our car based OK? What would society look like if we use all of that wasted time commuting, and money spent on this expensive mode of transportation on innovation and research and educating etc. I am not anti-car at all. I own one and I love it. If you want to own a car, then go for it! But pay your fair share of the real cost to everyone, and don’t ask me to subsidize your preference.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 06:56 PM   #15967
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25th station will move forward

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...ion-paves.html
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 06:57 PM   #15968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
M on Madison has completed the fourth floor. I thought it was supposed to be five stories, but it looks like it may have topped out.


I thought this tower was supposed to be six floors? According to this picture, it looks like six floors.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 07:41 PM   #15969
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In another Westside note, I noticed in today's Business Journal that a $3 million building permit has been issued for 200 W. Saratoga to convert it to a hotel. It looks like this story was completely ignored by our local media, but I did dig up this article from 2007:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/200...leep-inn-patel

If this is the same buiding, looks like we're getting a Red Roof Inn. Personally, I've always loved this building and that particular block of Saratoga Street.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 07:51 PM   #15970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyDre26 View Post
In another Westside note, I noticed in today's Business Journal that a $3 million building permit has been issued for 200 W. Saratoga to convert it to a hotel. It looks like this story was completely ignored by our local media, but I did dig up this article from 2007:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/200...leep-inn-patel

If this is the same buiding, looks like we're getting a Red Roof Inn. Personally, I've always loved this building and that particular block of Saratoga Street.
I hope we are getting a Red Roof Inn soon. That building has so much flavor!
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:45 PM   #15971
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Quote:
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I thought this tower was supposed to be six floors? According to this picture, it looks like six floors.
You're right, six floors. So far, what has been built follows this rendering to a T. It has those slanted beams on the corner. Hopefully, it goes to the full six. I should know when I pass it this afternoon. They've been doing about a floor every two days.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:53 PM   #15972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
You're right, six floors. So far, what has been built follows this rendering to a T. It has those slanted beams on the corner. Hopefully, it goes to the full six. I should know when I pass it this afternoon. They've been doing about a floor every two days.

Not a pedestrian friendly building, if you are looking for street level activity usage. You see this type of construction all over downtown, its very hostile to those those like to hoof around town.

Last edited by Gsol; February 3rd, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 09:58 PM   #15973
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Yeah, it's not the best design, but the surrounding building are all three or four story buildings with ground floor retail (or at least space for ground floor retail), so this project probably won't feel too hostile or imposing when it's finished. The bigger threat is the Maryland General garage across the street, which is hideous and should be demolished promptly.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:01 PM   #15974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
... Remember the privately owned Baltimore Transit Company which ran the street car system here? ...
People who lived in Baltimore during the '50s referred to the Baltimore Transit Co. (BTC) as "Better Take a Cab."
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:06 PM   #15975
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Quote:
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Not a pedestrian friendly building, if you are looking for street level activity usage. You see this type of construction all over downtown, its very hostile to those those like to hoof around town.
Yeah. The site slopes slightly north to south, and so the top of the parking garage is just above grade, making ADA-compliant retail entrances more expensive. Plus, probably isn't much demand for the kinda retail that would help pay the bills. Makes more sense for the developer to do more apartments.

So ... not great, but better than the parking lot that was there.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:21 PM   #15976
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...I think the fact is that the car has become an expensive necessity in our society and it has been a huge reason for loss in our standing as the world’s more powerful nation. ...
Who supplanted us as most powerful? Why does it matter, anyway?

Cars give people flexibility. College grads are being told now that they should expect to have something like nine careers (and multiple jobs within those careers) in their lives.

No way could mass transit ever support that level of job flexiblity.

And, again, if you don't have kids, or elderly parents, or any sort of medical problem that requires regular treatment by specialists, or a job that requires you to be anywhere but one location all day, every day, etc. etc. etc. ...

... then, sure, a car-free lifestyle would be great.

And, again (again): I like mass transit and use it regularly. But (a) it's run by people who for the most part are indifferent to the needs of the customer and (b) if one were contemplating building a transit system, Baltimore would be a prime example of how NOT to go about it.

Better Take a Cab.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:27 PM   #15977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
People who lived in Baltimore during the '50s referred to the Baltimore Transit Co. (BTC) as "Better Take a Cab."
Looks like the anti-mass transit attitude in Baltimore is older than I thought.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:30 PM   #15978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
Cars give people flexibility. College grads are being told now that they should expect to have something like nine careers (and multiple jobs within those careers) in their lives.

No way could mass transit ever support that level of job flexibility.
Where would someone be most likely to find 9 jobs in 30+ years? A city or a metro area. And with good mass transit someone should be able to get to and from their job with ease...think NYC, DC, Boston, Philly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
And, again, if you don't have kids, or elderly parents, or any sort of medical problem that requires regular treatment by specialists, or a job that requires you to be anywhere but one location all day, every day, etc. etc. etc. ...

... then, sure, a car-free lifestyle would be great.
No one is advocating against cars, trying to get rid of them. But some nice alternatives in Baltimore would be nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
And, again (again): I like mass transit and use it regularly. But (a) it's run by people who for the most part are indifferent to the needs of the customer and (b) if one were contemplating building a transit system, Baltimore would be a prime example of how NOT to go about it.

Better Take a Cab.
Can't argue anything here.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:36 PM   #15979
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I don't get how having kids, the elderly, medical problems etc would have to do with mass transit.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:40 PM   #15980
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Originally Posted by Mirage52 View Post
Looks like the anti-mass transit attitude in Baltimore is older than I thought.
Probably goes back to the "omnibuses" of the 1840s.

C'mon fellow mass transiters, let's face it ... to embrace mass transit, you gotta be okay with:

1) dealing with all kinds of weather;

2) waiting (you can't be in a huge hurry);

3) walking (a lot);

4) not carrying anything you couldn't run (at least) a block with;

5) the smell and idiosyncratic behavior of your fellow human beings;

6) customer relations that largely suq.

7) a planning process for expansion and route changes that largely favors those with the biggest mouths and the largest bowels, because they're the ones who can sit through endless meetings and make themselves heard.

8) sub-optimum results from said process, wherein an actual subway system gets value-engineered into three different modes with half-assed connections.

What's not to hate?

If I didn't hate circling parking garages even more, I'd never get on the bus.
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