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Old March 22nd, 2012, 06:18 AM   #16861
New_Balto
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Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
New balto , Live in the present. Stop your whining. You sound like Tricia.

Get over the slavery crap. Everyone knows it was wrong. You seem to forget who was selling the slaves then and who is still perpetuating slavery today. Clue - it's not whites.
Then and now, much of the African slave-trade was carried out by arabs from north Africa against sub-sahara Africans - Darfur in the Sudan is the perfect example.

Quote:
Arab Apartheid

Beginning in 1991 elders of the Zaghawa people of Sudan complained that they were victims of an intensifying Arab apartheid campaign.[25] Sudanese Arabs, who control the government, are widely referred to as practising apartheid against Sudan's non-Arab citizens.[26] The government is accused of "deftly manipulat(ing) Arab solidarity" to carry out policies of apartheid and ethnic cleansing against non-Arabs in Darfur.[26]
American University economist George Ayittey accuses the Arab government of Sudan of practicing apartheid against black citizens.[27] According to Ayittey, "In Sudan... the Arabs monopolized power and excluded blacks - Arab apartheid."[28] Many African commentators join Ayittey in accusing Sudan of practising Arab apartheid.[29][30][31][32][33]

Boston Globe columnist Fred Jacoby has accused Sudan of practising apartheid against Christians in what is now South Sudan "where tens of thousands of black Africans in the country's southern region, most of them Christians or animists, have been abducted and sold into slavery by Arab militias backed by the Islamist regime in Khartoum."[34][35]

Alan Dershowitz has pointed to Sudan as an example of a government that "actually deserve(s)" the appellation "apartheid."[36] Other distinguished people who have accused the regime in Sudan of practising "apartheid" against non-Arabs include former Canadian Minister of Justice Irwin Cotler.[37]
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict

The trading of slaves certainly wouldn't have flourished as it did if there wasn't a market for it by Europeans. Certainly, they were procurred cheaply from abroad and sold to the highest bidder in Europe, America and South America by Europeans and those of European Descent, not by Africans - those who were the products for sale.

Quote:
The Middle Passage was the stage of the triangular trade in which millions of people from Africa[1] were shipped to the New World, as part of the Atlantic slave trade. Ships departed Europe for African markets with manufactured goods, which were traded for purchased or kidnapped Africans, who were transported across the Atlantic as slaves; the slaves were then sold or traded for raw materials,[2] which would be transported back to Europe to complete the voyage. Voyages on the Middle Passage were a large financial undertaking, and they were generally organized by companies or groups of investors rather than individuals.[3]

Traders from the Americas and Caribbean received the enslaved Africans. European powers such as Portugal, England, Spain, France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and Brandenburg, as well as traders from Brazil and North America, took part in this trade. The enslaved Africans came mostly from eight regions: Senegambia, Upper Guinea, Windward Coast, Gold Coast, Bight of Benin, Bight of Biafra, West Central Africa and Southeastern Africa.[4]

An estimated 15% of the Africans died at sea, with mortality rates considerably higher in Africa itself in the process of capturing and transporting indigenous peoples to the ships.[5] The total number of African deaths directly attributable to the Middle Passage voyage is estimated at up to two million; a broader look at African deaths directly attributable to the institution of slavery from 1500 to 1900 suggests up to four million African deaths.[6]

For two hundred years, 1440–1640, Portuguese slavers had a near monopoly on the export of slaves from Africa. During the eighteenth century, when the slave trade transported about 6 million Africans, British slavers carried almost 2.5 million.[7]
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Passage

The chains, ropes, leg-irons, guns and ships used to steal human cargo certainly didn't originate in Africa nor the middle east; these items came from Europe and America.

Africans were used to build and develop land that was stolen from the original inhabitants who were either displaced or killed outright.

The 1% of those who own all of the wealth aren't of African descent or native American.

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Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
furthermore, it was whites who wrote and signed the civil rights legislation in the 60's. White republicans by the way.
Some were white republicans - northern republicans. The southerners of both parties, whom you seem to sympathize with, voted against it.

As for the Civil Rights act, the following was the actual vote:
Quote:

Vote totals

Totals are in "Yea-Nay" format:
  • The original House version: 290-130 (69%–31%).
  • Cloture in the Senate: 71-29 (71%–29%).
  • The Senate version: 73-27 (73%–27%).
  • The Senate version, as voted on by the House: 289-126 (70%–30%).
By party


The original House version:[14]
  • Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
  • Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)
Cloture in the Senate:[15]
  • Democratic Party: 44-23 (66%–34%)
  • Republican Party: 27-6 (82%–18%)
The Senate version:[14]
  • Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%–31%)
  • Republican Party: 27-6 (82%–18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[14]
  • Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%–37%)
  • Republican Party: 136-35 (80%–20%)
By party and region

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.



The original House version:
  • Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7%–93%)
  • Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0%–100%)
  • Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%–6%)
  • Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%–15%)
The Senate version:
  • Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5%–95%)
  • Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0%–100%)
  • Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%–2%)
  • Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%–16%)
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

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Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
And you conveniently forget who ended slavery in this country. Clue - it was whites.
You say this as if to say that those who were enslaved simply sat back while whites up north did all the work:

Quote:
Many, perhaps most, slaves engaged in passive resistance:
"They worked no harder than they had to, put on deliberate slowdowns, staged sit-down strikes and fled to the swamps en masse at cotton picking time. They broke implements, trampled the crops and 'took' silver, wine, money, corn, cotton and machines." 3
Others were more aggressive:
"They poisoned masters and mistresses with arsenic, ground glass and 'spiders beaten up in buttermilk.' They chopped them [slaveholders] to pieces with axes and burned their houses, gins and barns to the ground."
There were many slave conspiracies and revolts during the era of slavery. One source 6 writes that they went through three phases:

1730s - 1760s: Sudden, violent attacks, involving an African ritual component
1760s - 1800s: More conservative, wary revolts led by plantation slaves
1800s - 1840s: Better organized attacks, organized by assimilated blacks, many of whom were tradesmen.

Among the most serious were in Gloucester County, VA, in 1663; New York, NY in 1712; Stono, SC in 1739; Richmond, VA in 1800; near New Orleans, LA in 1811; Charleston, SC in 1822; Southampton County, VA in 1831; and Harper's Ferry, VA in 1859. Slave owners lived in continuous fear of an open revolt.
Source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_hist.htm

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Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
You want our tax dollars to pay reparations for shit that we had nothing to do with? Clue - you are not special. You are no better than anyone else and no one owes you or any slave ancestor a damn thing.
If you are the benefator of stolen goods, you're equally as guilty.

Quote:
The impact that slavery had on the United States during our infancy is immeasurable. The economic success of the agricultural sections, of the early colonies was almost completely reliant on slave labor. Not only did slavery have a huge economic impact, but it's moral, and political impacts were enormous as well...

The economical advantages gained from slavery cannot be argued. The political implications of slavery brought to the forefront many people who still impact our way of thinking, but on moral grounds, it was very negative. Black slaves were, more often than not, thought of as personal property and were treated with very little regard. Parents and children were routinely separated. The only interest that slave owners had for their slaves was based on the economic value that they held. The moral implications of slavery were a major cause of the Civil War.

As popularity for slavery grew in the South, opposition in the North grew just as rapidly. Abolitionists and the government both looked and pushed for ways to end slavery, which angered Southerners. Eventually the South, looking for a way to protect their way of life, ceded from the Union. This began the Civil War which, in the end, cost over 750,000 American lives.

So, in conclusion, I would have to say that without slavery, America might not be the country it is today. Its influence, good and bad, is still evident in our day to day lives.
Source: http://voices.yahoo.com/slaverys-eco...t-4561967.html

Not only did your ancestors trade in human bondage, they also stole the land you call america from the original inhabitants most of whom were killed off:

Quote:
Estimates:
Two studies have been conducted that attempt to number the natives killed by the United States. The first of these was sponsored by the United States government, and while official does not stand up to scrutiny and is therefore discounted (generally); this estimate shows between 1 million to 4 million killed. The second study was not sponsored by the US Government but was done from independent researchers. This study estimated populations and population reductions using later census data. Two figures are given, both low and high, at: between 10 million and 114 million Indians as a direct result of US actions. Please note that Nazi Holocaust estimates are between 6 and 11 million; thereby making the Nazi Holocaust the 2nd largest mass murder of a class of people in history.
Source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_N..._US_government

I dare you to provide resources that dispute the sources that I've provided. I've got more data to back me if you want to go there.

Last edited by New_Balto; March 22nd, 2012 at 06:27 AM.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 06:20 AM   #16862
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Originally Posted by rockin'.baltimorean View Post
guys, let's please put this issue to rest! Let's just agree to disagree!
I agree.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 11:54 AM   #16863
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The large signs at the old News American site anouncing that it was a development of "Urban America Corporation" have been removed. Nothing has replaced them. There are just 3 poles sticking out of the ground. I guess it was too much trouble to remove them.

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Old March 22nd, 2012, 01:56 PM   #16864
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Look...something better to argue about!

Downtown loses jobs, while demand for offices, housing grows, report shows

Downtown Baltimore lost 9.4 percent of its jobs in 2011, according to a study to be released today by the Downtown Partnership of Baltimore.

The partnership's annual State of Downtown report showed that the area had 102,731 jobs last year, down from 113,437 in 2010, according to Claritas, a research firm that tracks downtowns in the nation's top 25 metro areas and performed the analysis for the partnership.

However, local economists who reviewed the annual report on Baltimore's core — the area within a one-mile radius of the intersection of Pratt and Light streets — said any job loss likely was far less severe than the data indicated.

"I don't see signs of a 10 percent decrease in employment downtown," said Richard Clinch, director of economic research for the University of Baltimore's Jacob France Institute. "Could there have been a decline? Sure, there could have been a small decline."

Clinch — who does work for the Baltimore Development Corp., the city's economic development agency — said the drop could reflect problems with the data or the methodology used in the study.

J. Kirby Fowler, president of the Downtown Partnership, said the local job market was being dragged down by the flagging national economy.

"On the whole, 2011 continued to show signs of recovery against a national backdrop," said Fowler, citing the report's overall findings.

Claritas' data for downtown Baltimore appeared at odds with citywide employment, which grew by about 2,000 jobs last year, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

The Claritas data showed job losses in nearly all major downtowns, with drops of 6.7 percent in Philadelphia, 7.1 percent in New York, 18.1 percent in Denver and 16.2 percent in Phoenix.

Anirban Basu, head of the Baltimore-based Sage Policy Group — which performs fiscal analysis for the city — said he was as surprised by the latest Downtown Partnership figures as he was by the previous year's report, which showed a job gain.

"These findings do not square with our notion of strengthening economic recovery and are also inconsistent with the vacancy rate numbers, which indicate rising levels of economic activity downtown," Basu said. "From a street-level perspective, that's precisely what one observes — more activity downtown, not less."

The rest of the partnership's report showed economic recovery for downtown Baltimore. Office vacancy and hotel occupancy rates improved, though neither has returned to pre-recession levels.

Office vacancies declined to 17.7 percent last year from 19.2 percent in 2010, according to the report.

"We'd love to get to a 10 percent office vacancy rate, which is equilibrium," Fowler said.

Hotel occupancy improved to 63 percent, which is below pre-recession levels of 72 percent but up from 61.6 percent in 2010. The gain came despite the opening of the 256-room Four Seasons Hotel Baltimore last year.

"We're through the worst part of this and heading in a positive direction," said Tom Noonan, president and CEO of Visit Baltimore, the city's convention and tourism bureau. "We've had a lot of great events, more conventions are coming, and we're starting to see short-term corporate meetings happening again."

New retailers — H&M at Harborplace, Fresh & Green's in the former Superfresh on North Charles Street, and several restaurants — helped cut downtown retail vacancy to 5.7 percent.

Downtown Baltimore also has become a more attractive place to live, especially for young professionals seeking studios or one-bedroom apartments, the report found. With more than 700 new residents in the area, demand for rental units grew, boosting average occupancy to 97.2 percent, according to the report.

"The very low apartment vacancy rate suggests the market is now positioned to transform several of the Class B office buildings to apartment buildings," Basu said. "Developers of apartment buildings have found it simpler to garner financing lately, compared to during the downturn and immediate aftermath."

...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bre...,5093572.story
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 02:14 PM   #16865
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This should justify the development of State Center and every other parcel that's been sitting vacant.

If all the older properties are gentrified with housing and the economy is growing for the next 5 years, maybe those earlier proposals during the last 5 or so years can come of the back burner.

Dowtown has always been my favorite place to be - work, live or play.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 03:43 PM   #16866
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Originally Posted by New_Balto View Post
This should justify the development of State Center and every other parcel that's been sitting vacant.
Is it the loss of 9% of the jobs, the 17% office vacancy rate, or the 63% hotel occupancy rate that make you think it is wise to add millions of square feet of office to this still reeling market?!?!
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 03:58 PM   #16867
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Originally Posted by New_Balto View Post
I dare you to provide resources that dispute the sources that I've provided. I've got more data to back me if you want to go there.
Thank you. You saved me the effort to post a refute to his ridiculous claims. How could the Republicans have written and passed the Civil rights act of 1964 when both houses of Congress and the Presidency were controlled by the Democratic Party? Yes Democrats were against civil rights, Southern Democrats were. Since then they have almost entirely switched parties because they blamed the Democrats the Civil Rights Act. The leading Democratic Senator opposing it was Strom Thurmond. We all know where he ended up.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 04:03 PM   #16868
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Originally Posted by Huck View Post
Thank you. You saved me the effort to post a refute to his ridiculous claims. How could the Republicans have written and passed the Civil rights act of 1964 when both houses of Congress and the Presidency were controlled by the Democratic Party? Yes Democrats were against civil rights, Southern Democrats were. Since then they have almost entirely switched parties because they blamed the Democrats the Civil Rights Act. The leading Democratic Senator opposing it was Strom Thurmond. We all know where he ended up.

There is a place called SKYBAR! Feel free to talk cash shit there. I do it all the time.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=312
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 04:05 PM   #16869
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US Dept of Labor usually lists stats relating to metro areas right? Definitely reasonable to say downtown baltimore lost jobs while the area as a whole still gained jobs.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 04:26 PM   #16870
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Originally Posted by Dirk Ironside View Post
Is it the loss of 9% of the jobs, the 17% office vacancy rate, or the 63% hotel occupancy rate that make you think it is wise to add millions of square feet of office to this still reeling market?!?!
Have you ever noticed how every time an office building gets built or renovated everyone is dying to move in there?

Sure Baltimore experiences musical chairs with people moving from one building to another, but I think the important part is these moves always involve companies making upgrades to their office space.

I can't wait for the older buildings downtown to be converted to apartments that way they are taken out of the picture all together because I think they are distorting our vacancy rates. I guess I wish vacancy rates and demand were always broken down into class rating being that they usually represent different markets.

If Z class space was what companies in this region wanted, Baltimore would be king with its ample stock of old ugly outdated buildings.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 05:29 PM   #16871
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Under Armour replaces Tide Point sign with one of its own

Under Armour Inc. Under Armour Inc. Latest from The Business Journals Follow this company flashed the first sign — literally — that changes are on the way at Tide Point.

The Baltimore sportswear maker on Wednesday replaced the longtime “Tide Point” sign above its South Baltimore campus with a new sign that bares the company’s name. The neon “Tide Point” sign had been on top of the 400,000-square-foot waterfront office complex since Struever Bros. Eccles & Rouse Inc. redeveloped the former Procter & Gamble Co. Procter & Gamble Co. Latest from The Business Journals Follow this company factory in 2001.

Under Armour’s new sign is the same size as the Tide Point sign, a company spokeswoman said. The sign can be seen from the Inner Harbor.

Under Armour’s (NYSE: UA) official rebranding of Tide Point comes eight months after the company closed on its $60.5 million acquisition of the site. The company won city approval March 14 to double the size of the campus and add a new sign.

The first phase of Under Armour’s three-part expansion calls for adding a 25,000-square-foot flagship retail store. The company also got the OK to add an additional 25,000 square feet of retail space which would give it flexibility to add smaller stores to the campus. Development plans also include an 80,000-square-foot office building, 300 new parking spaces, a ground-floor promenade and sports fields.

Keep an eye out next to see if Under Armour places a giant illuminated sign with its logo on top of the complex. A rendering of its plans indicate they will.

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...oint-sign.html
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 06:33 PM   #16872
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Can't wait to see this lit up at night!

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Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:06 PM   #16873
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Originally Posted by House3780 View Post
Have you ever noticed how every time an office building gets built or renovated everyone is dying to move in there?
While true, this is a not an indication that we need more class A office space. When the shiny new Legg Mason tower opened, companies clamoured to sublease space there because it was offered at $20/sf (well below replacement cost). If I was in an old building in the CBD and I had a chance to move to a class A building for the same rent after concessions, I would do it too. But this is an indication of how hard it has been to lease empty office space, not a sign that we need more of it...
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 10:47 PM   #16874
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Baltimore ranks sixth in lowest-cost business location survey

KPMG examines large metro areas for lowest cost of doing business

Baltimore ranked sixth in a survey of the least-costly U.S. cities in which to do business, tax firm KPMG reported Thursday.

KPMG's study — which reviewed 27 large metropolitan regions — examined 26 cost factors in each market, including labor, taxes, real estate and utilities, in 19 industries over a 10-year period.

The tax firm cited Baltimore's lowest suburban office lease costs and low property-based taxes as reasons for its high rank.

Coming soon: Be first in line for The Sun's iPad app

Cincinnati topped the list, followed by Atlanta; Orlando, Fla.; Tampa, Fla.; and Dallas-Fort Worth.

San Francisco and New York were the most expensive cities for doing business in the large cities category, according to the study.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bre...,6154524.story
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 11:38 PM   #16875
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That's awesome that Baltimore is up there with sunbelt cities as good for business! Also I didn't know Cincinnati was a great place for business! I would love for the state center development to occur, I just don't know if now's the right time. Looks like we're heading in the right direction, though!

And guys, if we're going to get so off topic, why cant we just argue about how cute the Basset Hound is in Huck's avatar?
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 12:23 AM   #16876
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Rumor has it that a J. Crew will be opening soon in Harbor East. Maybe not the biggest news ever, but will further expand Harbor East as a shopping destination. Hopefully this will lead to more retailers downtown.


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Old March 23rd, 2012, 12:42 AM   #16877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffCantonite21224
Rumor has it that a J. Crew will be opening soon in Harbor East. Maybe not the biggest news ever, but will further expand Harbor East as a shopping destination. Hopefully this will lead to more retailers downtown.
If they've installed their sign, i'd say the "rumor" has been substantiated...
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 01:49 AM   #16878
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Good news. This article seems to confirm that: http://www.baltimorefishbowl.com/sto...t-harbor-east/

Anybody know the cosmetics store that they're talking about? Also, didn't we hear earlier that Express was coming to Harbor East? Anyone know if that is still happening?

EDIT: My wife says it's MAC Cosmetics.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 02:13 AM   #16879
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Originally Posted by Dirk Ironside View Post
Is it the loss of 9% of the jobs, the 17% office vacancy rate, or the 63% hotel occupancy rate that make you think it is wise to add millions of square feet of office to this still reeling market?!?!
If more vacant office space is converted to housing, that creates more critical mass on the street 12 or more hours a day which should ideally mean more business for existing businesses and eventually a greater demand for office space in the future.

People aren't buying condos but they are renting apartments and efficiencies. More people will mean more retail - perhaps for Howard Street.

If there are enough people downtown all the time, that will mean more people walking and using mass transit, like they did in the '60s.

I would like to see live video of downtown from those days.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 03:00 AM   #16880
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I suppose the photo was misleading. There is no sign in Harbor East yet...that was just a stock photo. I should choose the photos more carefully!
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