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Old November 11th, 2010, 09:56 PM   #1981
Nuwanda
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From the wiki article:

Quote:
Features that Orascom has installed include exterior glass panels and telecommunications antennas.[17] It is unclear to what extent Orascom plans to complete the building. In the late 1990s, the European Union Chamber of Commerce in Korea inspected the building and concluded that the structure was irreparable.[18] Questions have been raised regarding the quality of the building's concrete and the alignment of its elevator shafts,[4] which some sources say are "crooked".[19] In 2008, Orascom's resident project manager stated that, at a minimum, their goal was to make the facade more attractive.[2] In 2009, Orascom's chief operating officer Khaled Bichara noted that, despite the reported structural problems of the building, interior work will be performed, and that a revolving restaurant will be located at the top of the building.[4]
I recall an article from a few years ago that mentioned the poor materials and construction quality. It makes perfect propaganda sense that the dictatorship would clad the exterior to fake success. Maybe install some interior lighting, employ some "doormen", etc.

If this monstrosity ever becomes a functioning hotel in the sense that those of us living in the real world understand it, then I'll eat my hat.
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Old November 13th, 2010, 05:00 AM   #1982
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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Obviously it will be not hotel only.
I'm devastated by that fact. I had wanted that structure to be hotel only with the amenities on its base andfive revolving restaurants on top. By the look of it, it may as well be a one-use-only building.
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Old November 13th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #1983
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Great rocket
When is the take-off?
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Old November 13th, 2010, 09:24 PM   #1984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuwanda View Post
From the wiki article:



I recall an article from a few years ago that mentioned the poor materials and construction quality. It makes perfect propaganda sense that the dictatorship would clad the exterior to fake success. Maybe install some interior lighting, employ some "doormen", etc.

If this monstrosity ever becomes a functioning hotel in the sense that those of us living in the real world understand it, then I'll eat my hat.

Well, the article might be (anti) propaganda too. No outsiders have been able to visit the construction site so it's all speculation anyway!
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Old November 13th, 2010, 11:34 PM   #1985
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Well, the article might be (anti) propaganda too. No outsiders have been able to visit the construction site so it's all speculation anyway!
Haha. The very fact that no "outsiders" have been to the construction site should tell you everything you need to know.

Do you really think the North Korean dictatorship started this project so it's own citizens would have somewhere comfy to stay when the visited their capital?
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Old November 14th, 2010, 12:50 AM   #1986
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The fact that no outsiders have been at the construction site doesn't tell us anything. There haven't been outsiders not because North Korea doesn’t want them to be on this construction site, but because the country is closed for outsiders. Now, this might tell us something about the country, but not about the construction site and what’s going on with this building. Infact, this topic is about the construction of this building, not about the country it’s in.

Quote:
Do you really think the North Korean dictatorship started this project so it's own citizens would have somewhere comfy to stay when the visited their capital?
Well to answer that question, and to be on-topic:
This building was planned for visitors from other communistic countries at that time (the Soviet Union still existed) and probably will be in the future (Chinese visitors?). Of course also to show of its power, "evil" propaganda as you would call it, but that’s what every big monument in the world has been for, isn't it? The Eiffel tower, the Empire State Building, the Atomium, the St. Peter's Basilica, hell every church in every major town and city; it's all build to impress the people. In no way the Ryugyong building is any different from buildings like Burj Khalifa: a huge multi-purpose building (partly hotel) that shows wealth ad power, even in bad economic situations, where people wheren't allowed to be at during the construction.


Now, I know you think I, and all the people who like this building, are being blind and naïve Mr. Christchurch. Still we know as much as you do about the situation in North Korea, but we can look at this building in a neutral non-biased way. Propaganda always goes both ways. Don’t always believe what’s written, neither by North Korean dictators nor by people who have never been in North Korea. Ironically that’s probably something they don’t teach you in church.
No one knows what’s going on with this buildings and people have speculated a lot about ‘faking stuff’, those have been proven wrong everytime! Not by written words, but by facts.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 09:00 AM   #1987
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why is everyone under the impression that north korea is closed to outsiders? it's really easy to get a travel visa there, albeit you're entire trip is guided. i have friends who've travelled there. they're american. surprised?
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Old November 14th, 2010, 09:19 AM   #1988
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Originally Posted by casinoland View Post
why is everyone under the impression that north korea is closed to outsiders? it's really easy to get a travel visa there, albeit you're entire trip is guided. i have friends who've travelled there. they're american. surprised?
Yes actually. Just like I'm surprised to see Americans in Cuba. But I know there's tons of Americans who don't see communism as an issue, so good on 'em.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #1989
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Yes you can get in, but you can't call the country "open". Not everyone can get in easily (or out for some), and even when you get in you can't go where you wan't. You only get to see what they want you to see.

Im sure its not that hard to understand what anyone means with 'closed for outsiders'... but yeah you are RIGHT!
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Old November 14th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #1990
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image hosted on flickr
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Old November 14th, 2010, 11:53 PM   #1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuze View Post
Yes you can get in, but you can't call the country "open". Not everyone can get in easily (or out for some), and even when you get in you can't go where you wan't. You only get to see what they want you to see.

Im sure its not that hard to understand what anyone means with 'closed for outsiders'... but yeah you are RIGHT!
i think being so restricted there as a traveller would actually be part of the fun, getting to experience such intense propaganda. when in rome...
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Old November 15th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #1992
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Oh I agree about that, its probably 'one' of the last places on Earth where you can really experience the old Sovjet way of life.

I really want to visit NK one day!
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Old November 15th, 2010, 03:33 PM   #1993
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Vincenand, when was that picture taken? We want more, and closer pictures!
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Old November 15th, 2010, 03:42 PM   #1994
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That last picture makes me wonder if this building is really only 330 meter, 400-450 meter soms more likely compared to the tall building in the background.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 05:49 PM   #1995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuwanda View Post
If this monstrosity ever becomes a functioning hotel in the sense that those of us living in the real world understand it, then I'll eat my hat.
Again, it is already known it's not planned as just a hotel anymore. (like it was originally)

The construction company now says it is a multipurpose building. They can't fill it with just hotel. In different articles (including from BBC over a year ago) it is mentioned that the building involves residences, offices, hotel and restaurants. It's a multi-purpose building now.

Although I am pretty sure they will take their merry time fitting-out, there is very clear evidence of a long-term plan, with the mechanical floor, the thousands of open-able windows (see close-up photos earlier in thread), and the articles by what the construction company said.

There are also close-up photos of concrete refurbishment, which looked fascinating. They did skip some surfaces that looked non-critical from an engineering perspective, but they definitely refurbished the degraded 'balcony' edges before they cladded the sloped glass. There were some before/after photos that looked dramatic.

As explained in some long posts many pages ago, there are solutions to elevator-shaft issues. Which is easy for a highly experienced outsider construction company such as Orascom to solve. They were also involved [via BESIX] in Burj Khalifa, the world's tallest building. Also keep in mind that cable-driven/sprocket conveyance technology is very old (over 100 years), ranging from chairlifts/inclinators/cablecars/elevators/geared elevators/etc -- so creative solutions can be brought up, ranging from insanely expensive concrete refurbishment to smaller-straight-shaft-within-crooked-shaft technology, to custom elevators, and other retrofit technologies. Please go back and read.

Realistically, they will complete only a few floors at first, but they've obviously prepped all floors for eventual habitance in one form or another, and multi-purpose to stretch the utility of this building even further. Analysis of the construction work shows a long-term plan, in many close-up photographs. Features they would have skipped if this were not the case. If DPRK undergoes a China-style miracle in the next decade or two, it's possible they will be able to eventually fill the building with various purposes (lots have changed in the last 2 years according to what visitors say). This building is going to stay around for a long time likely -- the degradation has now been arrested by the weatherproofing of a facade, and some (albiet, not all) degradation of key areas was repaired with concrete refurbishment techniques (as explained in old posts).

So, because the building will be around for a long time, with obviously enough mechanical floor space as seen in the photographs, and the thousands of 'unnecessary' openable windows (why pay the extra cost?), the building is screaming to be habitated -- they have plenty of time to get an entire building's worth.

(From a fellow Torontoian. Purely interested in this building from an architectural view. It is a very good unusual-construction-project study)

Last edited by Mark Rejhon; November 16th, 2010 at 11:09 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 06:21 PM   #1996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post
Orascom ... They were also involved in Burj Khalifa, the world's tallest biulding.
Egypt's Orascom ownes 50% of the Belgian construction company called SIX Construct, which U.A.E. JV with local Belhasa Construction called BESIX, was part of the consorcium who build Burj Khalifa tower (together with Samsung Engineering of Korea and U.A.E.'s ARABTEC)
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Old November 16th, 2010, 01:32 AM   #1997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casinoland View Post
why is everyone under the impression that north korea is closed to outsiders? it's really easy to get a travel visa there, albeit you're entire trip is guided. i have friends who've travelled there. they're american. surprised?
What you just described is what "closed to foreigners" means. In other words, ask your friends to describe the details of their trip and what they'll describe to you is what is meant when people call NK closed to foreigners. I'm very familiar with accounts from tourists who've been there -- I'm not just buying into anyone's anti-NK propaganda (if you can even call it propaganda).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuze View Post
No one knows what’s going on with this buildings and people have speculated a lot about ‘faking stuff’, those have been proven wrong everytime! Not by written words, but by facts.
What examples are you referring to?
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Old November 17th, 2010, 08:05 PM   #1998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuze View Post
Yes you can get in, but you can't call the country "open". Not everyone can get in easily (or out for some), and even when you get in you can't go where you wan't. You only get to see what they want you to see.

Im sure its not that hard to understand what anyone means with 'closed for outsiders'... but yeah you are RIGHT!
Nonsense, as long as you are not a jounalist everyone can get easy access. The North Korean part of our trip (also russia, mongolia and china) was the easiest of all. You can't arrange it yourself. Just book at an agency, fill in the visaform (nothing else then other country, even a copy of you photo was enough, where do they accept that!!), pay and go....
In the plane, just some standard forms, at the airport, my luggage only went through a scanner (not searched by hand in my case). The only different part is that in the country you have limited freedom of movement, eating, sleeping etc. Camera ristrictions as they told us, bullfshit. Have seen the biggest camera's you can imagine. Some people did even bring in their mobiles, while it is not allowed. I didn't take the riks. Unfortunately my camera had limited zoom, so couldnt get the "hotel" closer.
They do go through your entire camera and erase pics which are not allowed (with a smile), but that is simple to get around. Just change your memorycard and stick one in your camera with "legal" pics. One guy had bad luck. He downloaded his photo's to an external harddisk, which they found. They erased the whole thing. It was the most relaxing part of our total trip.

And of course I don't support the regime, and poorness is a bad thing, but plz people, then also don't go to africa, don't go to poor asian countries, even in Europe there is lot of corruption and poverty....Don't blame NK for everthing...

But hey, not many can say they have seen this special building with their own eyes :-)
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Old November 17th, 2010, 08:27 PM   #1999
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Stevesteve, thanks for everything you've provided, but your post is odd.

You start by calling Betelgeuze's post nonsense, then agree with what he said!

Betelgeuse "you can't go where you wan't. You only get to see what they want you to see."
Stevesteve "The only different part is that in the country you have limited freedom of movement, eating, sleeping etc"
That is "not being able to go where you want"!

Betelgeuse "Not everyone can get in easily"
Stevesteve "as long as you are not a journalist"
That is "not everyone"!

Stevesteve "Camera ristrictions as they told us, bullfshit. Have seen the biggest camera's you can imagine"
Stevesteve "They erased the whole thing"
That is a "contradiction" and a restriction!

What's the point of this? We want close up construction pictures of the Ryugyong Hotel!
But we can't get any, due to "blame NK for everything?"........I do!

Last edited by Scrapernab2; November 18th, 2010 at 07:30 PM.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 01:54 AM   #2000
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I Stumbledupon this today...how much of this is true? lol

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/A48PGO...anguk/kimjong/
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