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Old October 15th, 2011, 08:39 PM   #2961
EuropeanChancellor
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And why do you think that you aren´t another puppet too?!
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Old October 16th, 2011, 06:23 AM   #2962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuropeanChancellor View Post
And why do you think that you aren´t another puppet too?!
Perhaps because I believe he isn't.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 02:26 AM   #2963
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The DPRK

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Originally Posted by architec101 View Post
People by millions in NK are starving to death while KJI wants to finish this hotel for the 100th birthday for his father who died more than a decade ago. Stupidity is the best word that I can use to describe the NK regime.
I am not a supporter of the Kim family. Of those who go to the DPRK I have only met a few fans of the regime and they had some kind of delusional disorder. I have been accused of being a fan of the regime but I am not.

With that disclaimer - millions are not starving. I go annually and have been all over the country and to some really bad areas. The food situation is one aspect of the country I study. Food distribution can be uneven. Right now in Haeju the food situation is bad and people are going hungry but that is not true in the country as a whole. This year things were generally as good as last year. Crops look good in many areas despite heavy July rains. As in the past this year there will be a shortage overall but this is usually felt in the cities.

There is not another famine in progress but much food production is local so when one area has a problem there can be hunger there. There are people who have marginal nutrition, we have seen that in children in day cares but lets not say everyone is starving.

Don't get hung up on what you think is going on. This is a closed society and those outside have motive to exaggerate conditions in the DPRK. Yes, they should import more food and the food distribution system stinks but it sure is better than it was in 2008.

I'll keep photographing the Ryugyong and I have requested to stay there when I can. My reservation request was already submitted. I just think we need to grasp reality when we talk about the DPRK.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 02:47 AM   #2964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuropeanChancellor View Post
And why do you think that you aren´t another puppet too?!
If he believed he was a puppet he wouldn't be a puppet anymore. Paradox.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 03:01 AM   #2965
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If you're really in Pyongyang, you're in a better position than I am to judge North Korea, and I frankly would tend to agree with you anyway. There is a motive, particularly in South Korea, to make the North look worse than it really is. But looking at where South Korea is now relative to the situation on the Peninsula immediately after the war, it's clear things in North Korea could be much better than they are; I think that's the real travesty that makes people upset.

But at the same time, I think it's fair that the North is subject to these unfounded criticisms, because it doesn't give anyone any real basis for criticisms at all. I think the country which is most honest about itself, to itself and others, tends to be the most respected. Not to say that North Korea is the only nation which lies about itself. Far from it, most countries do to some extent, and I think South Korea is nowhere near the best in this measure. But it's hard to take and treat in a consistently serious manner a country that says it will become "strong and prosperous" over the course of a year when, for decades, it has shown almost no motivation or even real desire to do so.

I also think it's hard not to be hung up on what we think is really going on when we're genuinely interested and yet have almost no real information.

I still maintain that, were the North to open up and guarantee (as best they could) the safety of tourists, and the Ryugyong used as a hotel, this building would be absolutely filled year-round for years to come.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 09:45 PM   #2966
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Wow this is incredible, can't believe the construction started 24 years ago :O

Too bad this thing is in NK, I wonder who will inhabit that place.

But it would be awesome to throw a huge party in that hotel and have the whole place for yourself.
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Old October 21st, 2011, 02:07 PM   #2967
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So strong is the wind resistance.
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Old October 21st, 2011, 06:27 PM   #2968
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Wow this is incredible, can't believe the construction started 24 years ago :O

Too bad this thing is in NK, I wonder who will inhabit that place.

But it would be awesome to throw a huge party in that hotel and have the whole place for yourself.
Will be used by NK propaganda thugs.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 02:40 AM   #2969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
If you're really in Pyongyang, you're in a better position than I am to judge North Korea, and I frankly would tend to agree with you anyway. There is a motive, particularly in South Korea, to make the North look worse than it really is. But looking at where South Korea is now relative to the situation on the Peninsula immediately after the war, it's clear things in North Korea could be much better than they are; I think that's the real travesty that makes people upset.

But at the same time, I think it's fair that the North is subject to these unfounded criticisms, because it doesn't give anyone any real basis for criticisms at all. I think the country which is most honest about itself, to itself and others, tends to be the most respected. Not to say that North Korea is the only nation which lies about itself. Far from it, most countries do to some extent, and I think South Korea is nowhere near the best in this measure. But it's hard to take and treat in a consistently serious manner a country that says it will become "strong and prosperous" over the course of a year when, for decades, it has shown almost no motivation or even real desire to do so.

I also think it's hard not to be hung up on what we think is really going on when we're genuinely interested and yet have almost no real information.

I still maintain that, were the North to open up and guarantee (as best they could) the safety of tourists, and the Ryugyong used as a hotel, this building would be absolutely filled year-round for years to come.
The ROK and the DPRK were once comparable (up to say 1979) but now they are quite separate societies and have little in common. They are by no means the same. One is a tiger economy and the other a dying infrastructure and a very basic economy. One is the most wired country, the other the least wired. People live a very hard existence in North Korea. 48 hour week, "voluntary labor," pay that does not translate into consumer goods, and rations that are unreliable all add up to a bad economy. I go annually to watch this and you do need to go into the countryside to see what is going on. That is what I do.

I think if the North opens up that people will want to see the hotel. It really now stands out with the glass on. Some say it looks like it is out of Star Wars and we wonder if it was inspired by the movie. I thought I would hate it but I really was fascinated the first time I saw it.

Yes, this is a closed country and a closed society really. I am lucky to have been to the other socialist countries prior to 1989 - multiple times so that helped to see beyond the facade. Korea is very different and the old Soviet hands who shifted expertise are missing the point. This is Korea - that is the first rule. If you do not understand Korea, Koreans, Korean history and culture - then you will begin making basic mistakes on the politics and culture. I get a real chuckle out of the experts and journalists making observations. They do not get it. This is Choson - not Communism. This is Confucianism, not the Cold War. I guess I have just sat through too many propaganda sessions with party members.

Yes - I am getting a room in this hotel and I will shoot photos inside. Those arrangements are being made. It really is a fascinating building despite its lineage and despite the history. One problem is that Pyongyang has a massive surplus of hotel rooms already. I was there for the Tae Kwan-do tournament this year and the athletes cleaned out the town of eggs and about everything else. When you went for tea for breakfast they dipped the tea bag in twice and used in another 10 times for other cups of tea. That says it all. No salt and no sugar outside of Pyongyang and even there you have to ask. Tourist facilities are very basic.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 07:58 PM   #2970
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9 October 2011
image hosted on flickr

by Jan Honomichl

12 October 2011
[IMG]http://i55.************/30x995c.jpg[/IMG]
by Jan Honomichl

[IMG]http://i53.************/zy6j5k.jpg[/IMG]
by Jan Honomichl
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Old October 24th, 2011, 08:21 PM   #2971
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Cladded from all sides?
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Old October 24th, 2011, 08:34 PM   #2972
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Just that one stripe missing.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 12:11 PM   #2973
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nice i love north korea
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Old October 25th, 2011, 12:30 PM   #2974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanye View Post
image hosted on flickr

by Frühtau
.. to the sky .. its like movie set! .. batman gotham city.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 03:29 PM   #2975
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Looking at the structures at the base of the tower, there is a massive amount of space to fill. What do you think they will put in? Shops, restaurants, casinos, movie theaters??? Does the subway run under this building?
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Old October 25th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #2976
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North Korea is so kitsch
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Old October 25th, 2011, 03:31 PM   #2977
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Quote:
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nice i love north korea

Why do you love NK? What do you think they would do to someone flying a rainbow flag off the balcony of their apartment?
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Old October 25th, 2011, 10:38 PM   #2978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanpadia View Post
.. to the sky .. its like movie set! .. batman gotham city.
Dude, or like LA from Blade Runner! =D
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Old October 25th, 2011, 11:15 PM   #2979
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Awsome scrascraper and excelent pictures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanye View Post
9 October 2011
image hosted on flickr

by Jan Honomichl

12 October 2011
[IMG]http://i55.************/30x995c.jpg[/IMG]
by Jan Honomichl

[IMG]http://i53.************/zy6j5k.jpg[/IMG]
by Jan Honomichl
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Old October 28th, 2011, 01:20 AM   #2980
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Quote:
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Will be used by NK propaganda thugs.
The world tallest tower

Last edited by Gaeth; October 28th, 2011 at 07:32 PM.
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