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Old September 17th, 2012, 01:49 AM   #3661
Korsakov
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The European Union said that? UN and Amnesty International have never entered the country, difficult for the government of North Korea has been admitted to theEuropean Union with all the lies and hatred they have towards North Korea.
North Korea is a country that has experience in the use of concrete, if the building was long exposed, surely now it's all right.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 02:20 AM   #3662
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And of course a press release like that is more rooted in politics than engineering. This building is in absolutely no danger of collapse.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 02:29 AM   #3663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denjiro View Post
The Ryugyong Hotel is one of the most futuristic buildings on earth, why so many people have a bad opinion about it?
What is/was so futuristic about it?
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Old September 17th, 2012, 03:32 AM   #3664
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I'd also be suprised if the EU were allowed to conduct a safety report on an unfinished building in North Korea. I'd like it to be true, but why would NK officials open the doors to the EU to do an inspection on a building? For what purpose? What benefit would it be to the NK officials?

Sorry would love to see the report, can't help but think it's nothing but hear-say though.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 03:34 AM   #3665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denjiro View Post
The Ryugyong Hotel is one of the most futuristic buildings on earth, why so many people have a bad opinion about it?
Because it is built by a dictator that enslaved the whole population of its country and embarked in the worst personality cult of modern times.

So, yeah, it might be an odd building but it is so tied to the regime I hope when the regime falls, they demolish the building because of its macabre symbolism.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 03:34 AM   #3666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
This building is in absolutely no danger of collapse.
At the same time, this is a bold statement to make - how do you KNOW this?

I can understand you thinking it should be stable, or that based on construction methods elsewhere it would be fine, but how do you know?

How do you know what mix they used for the concrete? How do you know how it was formed? Do you know exactly how they repaired it? If you don't know all of this, how can you be so sure?
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:10 AM   #3667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
And of course a press release like that is more rooted in politics than engineering. This building is in absolutely no danger of collapse.
that doesnt necessary mean it will pass to international standard and get a oc.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:33 AM   #3668
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I just wish "Good Luck" for the Hotel Guests.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:36 AM   #3669
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Most hate for this building comes from the fact that it's in the most secretive and hated nation in the world. Therefore, rumors and speculation are published quite often.

Soviet-built concrete blocs are very strong. Not to mention that North Korea used higher quality concrete than communist China did.

Judging by those windows, the concrete must be at least two feet thick. This building uses some of the most redundant amounts of concrete I've seen on any highrise. From construction models, there was steel rebar sticking out of the concrete forms, meaning that this is not only made from concrete, but reinforced concrete. Face it. It's the world's tallest bunker.

The building is built in one of the strongest shapes. Each wing supports the other two, and a triangular based pyramid is one of the strongest straight-edged shapes in the world.

Which experts said full occupancy could cause the building to collapse? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
If that's true, the concrete for the brand new NKorean highrises (which looks 5x worse) would probably have given way already, and the ryugyong would have collapsed by now, given the weight of the new cladding and mechanical equipment.

There are three or more 20+ story skyscrapers in Sarajevo that were not only burned, but shelled, too. There were clear holes in the sides of the buildings, and the steel was charred. Nevertheless, they were cleaned up (not demo/rebuilt!) and brought back to use. Where is the American/European media claiming them to be 'uninhabitable?'

If the dirt/chips shown on the concrete in those photos were a legit reason to think the building is in any real danger, then why not evacuate Guy's Hospital? It is horrible and grimy and there are large chunks falling off the facade. Must be in danger of a collapse at full occupancy, eh?

There are also highrises in Bangkok that were abandoned for as nearly as long as the Ryugyong was, and nobody seems to care or declare them 'the worst buildings in the world.

Also, I found a really nice picture of the Ryugyong. It might have some of the highest quality cladding I've ever seen on a highrise. IMO I think it looks sightly nicer than 4WTCs cladding.


When North Korea's regime collapses, This building will see much more love. I promise

Last edited by ThatOneGuy; September 17th, 2012 at 04:50 AM.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:42 AM   #3670
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The difference is TOG, All the other countries you've mentioned and the buildings you've referred to are accessible by anyone, and have regulatory standards that (mostly) sit in-line with other nations. Building standards, inspections etc. Anyone from any country can walk up to them, watch construction close up, people can report corner-cutting etc.

Again you say that NoKo used "higher quality concrete" than communist China did. How on earth can you possibly know that? Have you been and inspected both building/concrete types, have you read detailed reports on both that bring you to that conclusion?

No-one knows how well built this building is. It could be bomb-proof, it could be on the edge of falling down (although unlikely with foreign investment), it could be OK for now but unsafe in 10 years. No-one knows because no-one can access it and do an un-biased, sensible condition report.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 05:51 AM   #3671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Most hate for this building comes from the fact that it's in the most secretive and hated nation in the world. Therefore, rumors and speculation are published quite often.
The problem is, without concrete facts to disprove these so called rumors, these rumors to us is as real as facts.

Quote:
Soviet-built concrete blocs are very strong. Not to mention that North Korea used higher quality concrete than communist China did.

Judging by those windows, the concrete must be at least two feet thick. This building uses some of the most redundant amounts of concrete I've seen on any highrise. From construction models, there was steel rebar sticking out of the concrete forms, meaning that this is not only made from concrete, but reinforced concrete. Face it. It's the world's tallest bunker.
The best concrete in the world can still fail if continuously expose to rain and weathering, in completed building, drains are maintained, minimal water are left on concrete surfaces.

With an abandoned building like this one, drains becomes blocked, the internal is likely to be flood from rain water, water penetration cause concrete to crack, expose the reinforced part to corroded. And further weaken the structure. The longer you expose it to weather unmaintained, the bigger the risk.

If you have watched "Aftermath: Population Zero", it is believe skyscraper will start to collapse after 60 years.

Quote:
Which experts said full occupancy could cause the building to collapse? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Yes, I am not sure who said that, but it does sounds ridiculous.
But I don't think the building is as good as new, or can be repair so it is as good as new.

Quote:
There are three or more 20+ story skyscrapers in Sarajevo that were not only burned, but shelled, too. There were clear holes in the sides of the buildings, and the steel was charred. Nevertheless, they were cleaned up (not demo/rebuilt!) and brought back to use. Where is the American/European media claiming them to be 'uninhabitable?'
Not sure what building you refer to, but I think I heard some skyscrapers that suffer fire does need to be rebuilt.

Quote:
There are also highrises in Bangkok that were abandoned for as nearly as long as the Ryugyong was, and nobody seems to care or declare them 'the worst buildings in the world.
I think there are at least as much rumor that these building are unsafe as the Ryugyong, but building inspector can go in and prove otherwise.

Quote:
Also, I found a really nice picture of the Ryugyong. It might have some of the highest quality cladding I've ever seen on a highrise. IMO I think it looks sightly nicer than 4WTCs cladding.

The glass cladding does make it no nice, and give you many nice postcard, but we are still waiting for news of the inside.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:01 AM   #3672
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[QUOTE=mrfusion;95533471]
Not sure what building you refer to, but I think I heard some skyscrapers that suffer fire does need to be rebuilt.
/QUOTE]
Search up pictures of the Sarajevo seige, there are pictures of the burning skyscrapers.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:09 AM   #3673
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Why won't you respond to the criticism of your comments? I do enjoy it when you put specifics out about this building but won't back them up, you've only responded to the one tiny (and irrelevant) bit you can prove.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:27 AM   #3674
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Although I am not 100% sure about the 'NK uses higher quality concrete than Commie China" claim, I base it on photos I've seen of chinese commieblocks under construction, which used concrete that looked worse than the concrete currently on the Ryugyong and the neighboring new high rises.

I will never say the Ryugyong's concrete IS of a high quality, it's just that I've seen much worse.


Also, if a building's concrete is 2 or + feet thick, and is built in a strong shape, I don't think it is critically endangered... especially when there are other abandoned skyscrapers in a dense urban area like in Bangkok that, apparently, aren't causing much concern.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:34 AM   #3675
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For some people I read in the last thread pages... please, STOP talking about the supposed hatred towards this dictatorship. Don't turn this thread into a childish political discussion. Just talk about architecture and enginnering, at least in this thread.
I'm fed up of bastards that never knew what an absolutist regime is, and still want to make positive propaganda about it.
Anyway, if someone is a follower of this country, watch this whole video, and after that, do some research.

And after this subsection, can we just talk about the tower? Because I love this thread and I'm curious about this building. Thank yaaaw.

Last edited by Lindemann; September 17th, 2012 at 06:39 AM.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:45 AM   #3676
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I'm discussing the hatred towards the tower, not the country. It's clear the country is hated.
I just can't understand the bias against the Ryugyong. There are much worse buildings (structurally) that nobody seems to care about, so it seems to me that location is a massive factor in the building's hatred. A similarly designed tower in Russia proposed by Norman Foster saw nothing but praise.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 07:14 AM   #3677
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No, no... I wasn't talking about you. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me.
It's just that I checked some comments out, and I found some people trying to deviate this thread to another side.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 07:19 AM   #3678
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Sorry but almost this entire page is about the building itself - its structural integrity, build quality etc?

Agree there are too many ignorant people on here that have absolutely no clue about the country they seem to think is "nice" but I thought we'd moved away from that and onto the building itself as is obvious above?

The bias against Ryugyong is that some people think it's ugly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #3679
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Sep 07
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IMG_8380 von Stuart Clyne auf Flickr
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Old September 17th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #3680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
The hotel is not even close to being in good health and never was. An inspection by the European Union revealed that the concrete used for the building was of extremely poor quality and extremely weak. Also, the elevator shafts were deformed. They declared the hotel irreparable. Orascom with their poor 400 million budget just can't fix such a wreck. On the pictures shown below the decay and crumbling of the concrete can be clearly seen. Yes, those crumbled edges can be restored, but the truly shocking thing is that they crumbled so much during the time the hotel was on hold. In Bratislava there are many exposed concrete structures, one even a shell of a building like the Slaughterhotel but at the edges they show either no damage at all, or only minimal damage. The fact that the Slaughterhotel shows such extensive damage on its edges is testimony of the poorness of the quality of its concrete. Concrete can be restored, but one can not restore strength the building never possessed. Some experts even say that just as much as full occupancy could cause the building to collapse.
I had a discussion with one of my professors freshman year (he is a civil engineering professor that specializes in concrete and building dynamics) and he said that restoration, such that done on Ryugyong, is possible to do, even on structures that have been left exposed for that long. They do it on bridges all the time.
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