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Old October 30th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #3901
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Regardless of opinion, however sick some of them may be, I think it has to be admitted that the building is nice. It also does add some allure to Pyongyang's skyline.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 07:53 PM   #3902
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Originally Posted by đđeůx View Post
I think it has to be admitted that the building looks nice. It also does add some allure to Pyongyang's skyline.
There, fixed it for you.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #3903
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The building looks beautiful, but the building's quality is hideous...
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Old October 30th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #3904
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Many people hate the shape and the country, therefore spread negative rumours about the building. If Orascom Construction Industry (yes, Orascom manufactures cement and works on structures other than this building) would continue working on this boxy building in capitalist Thailand, which was abandoned for almost as long as the Ryugyong, nobody would care.
[img]http://oi50.************/1ij1h0.jpg[/img]
And yes, apparently some trust the Chamber of Commerce better than the engineers working on it.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 12:32 AM   #3905
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There, fixed it for you.
It didn't need fixing.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 02:44 PM   #3906
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I dont understand all the hate on this building... I think it looks great!
The criticism is not on the looks, but rather on the structural part of the building and the prioritizing from the goverment. At least from my point of view.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 03:52 PM   #3907
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Many people hate the shape and the country, therefore spread negative rumours about the building. If Orascom Construction Industry (yes, Orascom manufactures cement and works on structures other than this building) would continue working on this boxy building in capitalist Thailand, which was abandoned for almost as long as the Ryugyong, nobody would care.
[img]http://oi50.************/1ij1h0.jpg[/img]
And yes, apparently some trust the Chamber of Commerce better than the engineers working on it.
The abandonment isn't what matters. The quality of the concrete matters and I dunno about that Thailand building, but the Slaughterhotel is made outta low quality concrete.

The EU chamber of Commerce didn't visit that building just like that with snapping a few photos and leaving. They inspected it, which means that they came with engineers. Saying that their engineers are something less than Orascom engineers is complete foolishness. Engineers have inspected the building and determined the negative factors I mentioned so many times before. As to why I trust the EUChoC and not Orascom. The EUChoC is neutral. It has nothing to gain or loose with the success or failure of the Slaughterhotel. On the other hand Orascom has a financial interest in this matter, so it is not trustworthy. And one more thing I would like to add is that how can anybody ever trust a company that makes deals with a government of mass-murders

Besides, any inspections of Orascom are pure speculation. The only proven inspection is the one that the EUChoC has done in the late 1990s.

One thing I would like to add is that hoping this building collapses when there are as few people inside it as is just possible, ideally none, is the exact opposite of disgusting. The DPHK government building a building that is unsafe and in danger of collapse is what is disgusting.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 10:58 PM   #3908
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The point of the Thailand picture is that you can clearly see warped steel near the top. Look at the red lines. If someone re-worked on that, nobody would care whatsoever. And look at all that rust and mold dripping on the concrete facade of that building. If it's dirty it must be near collapsing, right? Even if it stood for 15 years?
Esquire Magazine is neutral and is about as qualified on structures as the Chamber of Commerce yet they still called it the worst building in the world.

Orascom Construction has no reason to say they found no problems since their only incentive was to build the communications antenna on the roof., with the price of completing the building. They, like the North Korean government, would have no problem with leaving it completely uninhabitable and calling it a mere statue or monument to the leaders, like the Arc de Triomph. It would also be cheaper, and give the leaders good propaganda. But they are not doing that. They installed fireproofing/waterproofing, added mechanical floors, and are completing the base and surroundings, with photographed reinforcement of columns, signifying the building will be completely fitted out, internally, and habitable. This means they found it okay for people to live in, for other people to depend their lives on, and few structural problems. If the building collapsed while they oversaw the reconstruction, Orascom would be finished. They would lose literally everything they have. EU has nothing invested in this building, and if it ever collapsed, it wouldn't affect them.

Last edited by ThatOneGuy; October 31st, 2012 at 11:18 PM.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 11:03 PM   #3909
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As much as I despise North korean regime I dont think they would spend money on this hotel if it was to just collapse and embarrass them. Surely they are counting on the hotel being sturdy and eventually being opened to foreigners.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 11:22 PM   #3910
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Quote:
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They worked for the European Union itself. If they were credible enough for the EU, they are credible enough for me

Do you have proof that they are credible? It was preliminary review by South Koreans which also reported the building require additional funding to COMPLETE. This was when "Sun-Shine Policy" was in affect. They have NOT conducted a review yet for around 10years. Also the report was NOT full investigation of building structure, but a QUICK overview as North and South does not have diplomatic relationship to allow for such previlige. South Koreans were going to RENT the upper floors for business; but because it was NOT finished, they did not. EU report... there is NO site in KOREAN Language of the so-called FULL EU report in english version. Where did you get it? Quote the site.... better be more than a wiki-site. Easy to mock others, but better have more than "selective" section of quotes to make it a COMPLETE TRUTH. This is super structure building that Orascam does NOT have expertise in. Orascam is telecommunication company which funded via RENT FEE for portion of their floor renting. This is FACT; provide quote that would counter this facts if you differ to agree.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 11:48 PM   #3911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
As much as I despise North korean regime I dont think they would spend money on this hotel if it was to just collapse and embarrass them. Surely they are counting on the hotel being sturdy and eventually being opened to foreigners.
I think it would be better to say that Orascom C.E.O.s would never simply lie about the state of the building, only to have it collapse and destroy their reputation and their entire business, and end up in jail.
N. Korea spent money on a rocket, and we know how that turned out.

I think I rest my case.

On topic, I wonder how the lighting scheme will be on this building?
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Old October 31st, 2012, 11:53 PM   #3912
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No, I don't believe you because by report I meant a report after an engineering inspection. You didn't inspect this building, you're just a forumer who says his opinion, nothing more

You didn't inspect this building, why are you claiming "building" structure failure? I see that you are posting picture on structure during its building phase claiming failure; or is this your opinion. It is "probable" that you don't like this building over shadowing anything your nation have. "Probable" just like your claim of this building structure weakness. The so-called SOuth Koreans claiming EU, inspected the floor they wanted to rent, but did not conduct full structure inspections. There were Koean news paper reported on that. EU should sue these people for placing their name on the report. There is NO OFFICIAL EU report from EU on this building; maybe same nations who decided IRAQ had nuclear weapons should sent their experts. EU could be NEVER WRONG. DUH....
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Old October 31st, 2012, 11:58 PM   #3913
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Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
As much as I despise North korean regime I dont think they would spend money on this hotel if it was to just collapse and embarrass them. Surely they are counting on the hotel being sturdy and eventually being opened to foreigners.

I agree with you. That would be common sense to me, but Kanto would disagree. Kanto is ALL expert on structure failture quoting NON-existing EU report.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 12:08 AM   #3914
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The abandonment isn't what matters. The quality of the concrete matters and I dunno about that Thailand building, but the Slaughterhotel is made outta low quality concrete.

The EU chamber of Commerce didn't visit that building just like that with snapping a few photos and leaving. They inspected it, which means that they came with engineers. Saying that their engineers are something less than Orascom engineers is complete foolishness. Engineers have inspected the building and determined the negative factors I mentioned so many times before. As to why I trust the EUChoC and not Orascom. The EUChoC is neutral. It has nothing to gain or loose with the success or failure of the Slaughterhotel. On the other hand Orascom has a financial interest in this matter, so it is not trustworthy. And one more thing I would like to add is that how can anybody ever trust a company that makes deals with a government of mass-murders

Besides, any inspections of Orascom are pure speculation. The only proven inspection is the one that the EUChoC has done in the late 1990s.

One thing I would like to add is that hoping this building collapses when there are as few people inside it as is just possible, ideally none, is the exact opposite of disgusting. The DPHK government building a building that is unsafe and in danger of collapse is what is disgusting.

Your entire view on this building is speculation except quoting non-existing South Korean report which went to NoKor for review, not inspections. Your SlaughterIQ seem to point the finger to someone else's quotes as truth and nothing but the truth. So which articles do you "choose" to be the truth? The one that you "LIKE" or "DISLIKE". Provide the website in KOREAN(which the inspection report was written in Korean) in FULL version along with FULL english verions you happen to read already. You cannot because you did not read the FULL version, because you don't have it. Go fume out your resentment somewhere else as you are degrating the integrety of this site.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 12:13 AM   #3915
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They worked for the European Union itself. If they were credible enough for the EU, they are credible enough for me

NO, THEY DO NOT work for EU, but South Korea government. Get your facts straight. Is this one of your speculation again. Maybe all those building around the Ryugyong Hotel is going to be same faith. Why are all of those building still ALL standing, what happened......those concrete cement change their mind...
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Old November 1st, 2012, 12:30 AM   #3916
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The point of the Thailand picture is that you can clearly see warped steel near the top. Look at the red lines. If someone re-worked on that, nobody would care whatsoever. And look at all that rust and mold dripping on the concrete facade of that building. If it's dirty it must be near collapsing, right? Even if it stood for 15 years?
Esquire Magazine is neutral and is about as qualified on structures as the Chamber of Commerce yet they still called it the worst building in the world.

Orascom Construction has no reason to say they found no problems since their only incentive was to build the communications antenna on the roof., with the price of completing the building. They, like the North Korean government, would have no problem with leaving it completely uninhabitable and calling it a mere statue or monument to the leaders, like the Arc de Triomph. It would also be cheaper, and give the leaders good propaganda. But they are not doing that. They installed fireproofing/waterproofing, added mechanical floors, and are completing the base and surroundings, with photographed reinforcement of columns, signifying the building will be completely fitted out, internally, and habitable. This means they found it okay for people to live in, for other people to depend their lives on, and few structural problems. If the building collapsed while they oversaw the reconstruction, Orascom would be finished. They would lose literally everything they have. EU has nothing invested in this building, and if it ever collapsed, it wouldn't affect them.
So many bold statements, yet you forgot to add that all of them are pure speculation at your side. You can't know what Orascom discovered about the building and what they installed or didn't install because it never made a public announcement of any discoveries and even if it made, it still wouldn't be trustworthy because they are an interested party in this matter. The EUChoC on the other hand is neutral and objective. Also, you haven't got a clue what is and what isn't profitable to Orascom because you haven't seen the contract between Orascom and DPHK.

Your statement of how the collapse of the Slaughterhotel would ruin Orascom is untrue. In some ways it would harm its reputation, but in other ways it would actually make it better. Its reputation would be worse in serious, well functioning countries, however it would be better in dictatorships and corrupt counties, because a company that doesn't care about safety or lives but cares only about money is exactly the partner they seek. And that I fear is also the case of Orascom because of its willingness to make deals with mass-murderers, but I already talked about that in my previous post. And I saw the same photos you saw and I haven't seen any proof of the building being reinforced. There is no evidence that would support the notion that the building will ever be something other than an expensive telecomunications mast. And one more thing, this discussion is on topic. There's nothing more on topic than the engineering of the building of this thread.

Btw, could somebody please ban this Kantotards spammer? It is clear that he joined the forum solely for the purpose of spamming.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 01:09 AM   #3917
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Actually, Orascom has every right to worry about the building's structure, since they have branches in construction. If a building that Orascom Construction oversaw collapsed, they would be ruined. Destroy their business. And that would devastate them even more that what North Korea would ever pay them. Orascom has 5 billion dollars today, according to this, http://www.orascomci.com/filestore/AR2011.pdf
and they would lose all that if this structure failed. North Korea has about 32 billion dollars in GDP, and 5 billion dollars would be at least 15% of the entire country's GDP. North Korea won't repay that. Orascom has to make sure this building is safe or their business will be destroyed. Nobody will trust a construction and concrete company that had a project collapse. Especially if they lied about the safety.

Also, I don't think they would bother with adding mechanical floor vents, and fireproofing, if they would leave it uninhabited. They could have just completely covered the building in opaque, blue metal panels with a layer of glass to make it reflective, say it is used for government purposes (so nobody would have a reason to go in) and declare it finished there and then. Or just call it a monument to Glorious Leader, with no other use. They could still use it as a cell phone tower and not have to waste millions on reconstruction, and North Korea would get its propaganda. Win-win situation. But that's not what's happening, is it?

American companies used to make business and trading deals with Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, so would you not trust them?

It's how business works. You don't initiate an investment that might backfire so terribly. You make assumptions that Orascom would not be totally destroyed by a collapse, for the mere reason that it is in North Korea, and that human deaths are somehow made null and void because of the location. A collapse would set the impression that Orascom is incapable of building a structure. Nobody will use the service of a construction company that had a building collapse. They would then be prosecuted for fraud (since they claimed it to be safe) and manslaughter, be jailed, and lose everything. And for what, a cell phone extension into North Korea? Either this building is safe, or Orascom are complete morons. I don't think it's the latter.

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Old November 1st, 2012, 01:35 AM   #3918
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Again more speculation. I explained in the previous post that there is a market in which the collapse of the Slaughterhotel would actually help them. Because of this, they wouldn't be ruined. In fact, I would say that for them that might actually be profitable and positive, but there's no way that any of us can ever know if we don't see the contract. We can't even know that the DPHK wouldn't repayed them if a collapse would occur, without seeing the deal they signed. The only thing I meant to prove here is that your assumption that a collapse would totally ruin their reputation is completely untrue. A lying company that doesn't care for life is exactly what most dictatorship countries would want. But again, this is only supposed to disprove your backfire certainity theory. Things aren't as black and white as you'd like them to be because unlike you, I don't state speculation as fact.

As to them installing mechanical stuff, that might be only for show because I'm pretty sure that image analysts might be able to identify a fraud from photos. So they are maybe trying to make the fraud as trustworthy as possible in order to build a not easily debunkable propaganda monument.

One thing you should consider is that money is already being wasted. If Orascom could do whatever it wants, it would build a guyed mast and some lowrises, the fact that they are finishing the Slaughterhotel can already point out to how the DPHK has offered them a deal that will offset these additional expenses. The DPHK desperately wants to have that building look like it's OK. It needs its propaganda machine.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 01:57 AM   #3919
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Okay, fine. They care about money. But if lives end due to their mistakes, they lose credibility, therefore lose money. Therefore they care about the lives using it. Makes sense?

What analysts would go to the effort of debunking the usability of the Ryugyong Hotel? How would that benefit them? I know Orascom wouldn't benefit from adding such details on the structure. And it's not just the mech floors, but the fireproofing, the open-able windows, the staircases, the open lobbies, etc. And now that North Korea released photos of the interior, everybody knows the state of the interior. Why release pictures of the unfinished interior if it is used for propaganda only, and not to be inhabited? Why didn't it have its opening ceremony, yet? Why is Koryo Tours offering bookings for a tower that will never be used?

Trump World Tower has nothing more than a single type of black glass covering yet it LOOKS functioning to me.

North Korea let them establish a telephone communications investment in their country ONLY IF they finished the building. They wouldn't allow them to build a telephone mast on its own.
And like I said, they could have make it look like a propaganda machine, and a telephone tower, in much cheaper, easier ways than what Orascom is currently doing. But then again, you think they're stupid. I can't disprove that.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 05:18 AM   #3920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelian View Post
I think for you guys who never lived under communism find this [email protected] something exotic and cool.Well, is not.
I was born in communism and my parents lived in communism, and I still like this building. I dislike North Korea, but I love this architecture. It's all that matters on this forum, anyway.
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