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Old November 1st, 2012, 01:52 PM   #3921
Kanto
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Okay, fine. They care about money. But if lives end due to their mistakes, they lose credibility, therefore lose money. Therefore they care about the lives using it. Makes sense?

What analysts would go to the effort of debunking the usability of the Ryugyong Hotel? How would that benefit them? I know Orascom wouldn't benefit from adding such details on the structure. And it's not just the mech floors, but the fireproofing, the open-able windows, the staircases, the open lobbies, etc. And now that North Korea released photos of the interior, everybody knows the state of the interior. Why release pictures of the unfinished interior if it is used for propaganda only, and not to be inhabited? Why didn't it have its opening ceremony, yet? Why is Koryo Tours offering bookings for a tower that will never be used?

Trump World Tower has nothing more than a single type of black glass covering yet it LOOKS functioning to me.

North Korea let them establish a telephone communications investment in their country ONLY IF they finished the building. They wouldn't allow them to build a telephone mast on its own.
And like I said, they could have make it look like a propaganda machine, and a telephone tower, in much cheaper, easier ways than what Orascom is currently doing. But then again, you think they're stupid. I can't disprove that.
No, your speculation doesn't make sense because you have no evidence that they would loose money if the tower collapsed. You have no details on their contract and as I said before, for some clientele they would actually gain credibility if the building collapsed. This is not to say that it is in their interest to see the tower collapse, I only wanted to say that your possibilities aren't the only ones and therefore you can't assume that they are the truth without additional data. Data that none of us has.

As to details, they can serve a Potemkin purpose just as much as they can serve a real purpose and you have no data on their authenticity. A few pics of a lobby prove absolutely nothing cause this could be all that we'll ever get. Propaganda benefits from details too.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 04:45 PM   #3922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Many people hate the shape and the country, therefore spread negative rumours about the building. If Orascom Construction Industry (yes, Orascom manufactures cement and works on structures other than this building) would continue working on this boxy building in capitalist Thailand, which was abandoned for almost as long as the Ryugyong, nobody would care.
[img]http://oi50.************/1ij1h0.jpg[/img]
And yes, apparently some trust the Chamber of Commerce better than the engineers working on it.
What is unfinished building name ? Thanks you very much.
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Skyscraper sin cos tan calculation = [(Total width - Reverse width) - Open-air width] / sin cos tan angle = Skyscraper height as compatible width.

A. sin cos tan angle 30 = 2.828 , 45 = 2.121 and 60 = 1.414

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Old November 1st, 2012, 07:01 PM   #3923
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Hi fellows,
You might like this:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-tallest-hotel
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Old November 1st, 2012, 07:01 PM   #3924
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/...-year-17614564

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Huge N. Korea Hotel Begun in 1980s Might Soon Open

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Text Size- / +SEOUL, South Korea November 1, 2012 (AP)

The 105-story, pyramid-shaped hotel that has stood over North Korea's capital city like a mountain for more than 20 years just might be on the verge of opening for the first time.

Pyongyang's Ryugyong Hotel will "partially, probably" open in the middle of next year, Reto Wittwer, CEO of international hotel operator Kempinski AG, said Thursday at a forum in Seoul.

Kempinski will manage the hotel, which Wittwer said will open with shops, offices, ballrooms, restaurants and 150 rooms.

The enormous hotel has been a source of fascination and ridicule for the outside world, and an oversized embarrassment for North Korea's authoritarian regime.

North Korea began building the Ryugyong in the 1980s but stopped when funding ran out in the 1990s. Exterior construction resumed in 2009.

There have been various reports in recent years that the hotel was preparing to finally open. In September, a Beijing-based tour agency was allowed to peek inside and released pictures of the bare concrete lobby.

Wittwer said he first saw a picture of the hotel many years ago, and thought then that it could eventually make a lot of money.

He said Cairo-based Orascom Telecom is funding the construction. The firm launched a mobile network in North Korea in 2008.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 08:19 PM   #3925
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Kempinksi is a high end hotel chain. I can't afford to stay at the Kempinski Munich whenever I travel there. My company won't allow it on my expense account!

https://secure.kempinski.com/KIMUC1/en/choose_room.html

Check out the Ludwig suite. AND THE PRICE! 15,000 Euros per night!
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Old November 1st, 2012, 10:45 PM   #3926
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Now apparently Germans want to manage the hotel. Great article.

Edit: I had no idea Orascom planned on using the office floors themselves. Makes sense, though. There are three apparent tiers seperated by mech. floors, and I suppose the top tier will be used for hotel rooms, since it has the smallest floor plates. The bottom tier will have offices, since those are the largest, and maybe the middle tier will be mixed-use?

Last edited by ThatOneGuy; November 1st, 2012 at 10:55 PM.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:11 PM   #3927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
No, your speculation doesn't make sense because you have no evidence that they would loose money if the tower collapsed. You have no details on their contract and as I said before, for some clientele they would actually gain credibility if the building collapsed. This is not to say that it is in their interest to see the tower collapse, I only wanted to say that your possibilities aren't the only ones and therefore you can't assume that they are the truth without additional data. Data that none of us has.

As to details, they can serve a Potemkin purpose just as much as they can serve a real purpose and you have no data on their authenticity. A few pics of a lobby prove absolutely nothing cause this could be all that we'll ever get. Propaganda benefits from details too.
Even though I have a bit of understanding about business deals are made, and the difference between a good investment and a bad investment, it's all speculation, isn't it? Imagine the publicity Orascom Construction will get when they truly complete the building and make it safe. When the entire world thought it was irreparable. That publicity will get them way more business than just completing it as a glorified cell antenna. And if the tower fell? Nobody will use their services, again. I'll bet that company never made international news until they started this project.

When I said they will lose money, it is because of the massive amount of money they already spent fixing up the building, which would be instantly wasted, if it collapsed. Then, once hearing that one of their projects collapsed, nobody will dare to use their construction services anymore. So they will lose LOTS of money.

Can you explain to me why a concrete and construction company will get a GOOD reputation if one of their projects collapsed? Because that's the one part I don't understand...
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:47 AM   #3928
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I have already debunked both of your theories by providing counter theories that are just as probable as your theories are. This of course doesn't mean that my theories are true, it only proves that nobody can claim his/her theories are fact, like you do. Only official facts from credible sources can be viewed as facts. Now I will provide examples of these counter theories:

1, The publicity. Completing the Slaughterhotel can make their reputation good, like you claim, or, it can make it worse, that is when people educated about the EU inspection will think that the company the company invests in an unsafe and weak building which could collapse.

2, The reputation. If the Slaughterhotel collapsed people who value life would be disgusted by the company. But corrupt people and dictators would actually like Orascom far more than they did before the collapse because that's the partner they seek. These corrupt people want to make quick money or propaganda and don't care how much meat gets grinded. Seeing that Orascom cared just about their money and not about people's safety would be the ultimate sign that this is the partner they have been seeking. And in Asia and Africa there are many corrupt nations and dictatorships. Besides, I think that the fact that Orascom makes deals with DPHK is already reason enough for honorable people to avoid any deals with it.

3, Money. You say that by a collapse they would loose money, however you can't make such a claim without knowing their contract. They could very well gain money from a collapse. The fact that they are finishing the Slaughterhotel instead of building a guyed mast and lowrises already signals that DPHK had to offer them something extra. Then of course there is a very real possibility that DPHK would go even further and would agree that if the Slaughterhotel would collapse it would build a guyed mast and lowrises and give them to Orascom for free, also giving them a refund for the loss of personnel. maybe that refund could be so big that it wouldn't just not be bad for Orascom if the hotel would collapse, but in fact would be even profitable for them.

Again, these are just theories, just as your theories are. I've written this post only to show you that for every single one of your theories there is an equally probable anti theory.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 01:47 AM   #3929
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Half of your "debunks" are to do with biased assumptions of North Korea, which emphasizes my all-time theory of 90% of hate on this building being just for the location. You assume that Orascom is an evil company that would kill off tons of people for quick money. That's not how it works. Maybe in sci-fi moves.

The Chamber of Commerce specializes in money, business, and trade. Not structural engineering. Orascom has branches in construction. Who knows better?

Orascom is not making deals with N. Korea because they love to starve people and agree with grueling totalitarianism. They're there to make money off investments for a cell phone network. And to set up offices, as I've recently learned. American companies once made trading and investment deals with the Soviet Union, which killed the most people in history, besides communist China. Therefore they shouldn't be trusted?
Also, I think other dictators would rather have a reliable constructor of propaganda than one that had an entire building collapse... Unless, of course, they're sociopaths and would rather kill people for fun than have strong structures.

The second point is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. First off, there is no other dictatorship like that in the world, that could even begin to get away with that, and Orascom wasn't there because they WANTED to build propaganda in dangerous ways. They HAD to resume construction, in order to build the network connection they wanted.

Your theories are not equally probable. You assume that the collapse of the building would make them revered instead of reviled, (other dictators will like them..?? I still don't get it) and that they would trade flesh for money. I gave realistic theories based on how business works. This can't even be a serious conversation.
I won't continue arguing about this, because you've mostly resorted to taking jabs at North Korea as your rebuttals.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 01:55 AM   #3930
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Here is an article from TODAY, a free newspaper in Singapore.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...61932774_n.jpg

source: TODAY
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:08 AM   #3931
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Interesting development. Bloomberg has a detailed article about this : http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...ens-tower.html

Also looks like only part of the building will be a hotel :

The top floors of the hotel will house guests in 150 of the originally planned 1,500 rooms, which “will be developed over time” to remodel the insufficiently designed spaces, Wittwer said. Shops, restaurants, a ballroom and Orascom’s offices on the ground and mezzanine floors will also open next year.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:12 AM   #3932
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Sounds legit. Looks like 30 years ordeal is coming to an end and the hotel will finally be opened.

And I guess that answers any questions about the quality of the concrete foundations and skeletons. No way Germans do this if that thing would look like it would collapse.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:34 AM   #3933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Interesting development. Bloomberg has a detailed article about this : http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...ens-tower.html

Also looks like only part of the building will be a hotel :

The top floors of the hotel will house guests in 150 of the originally planned 1,500 rooms, which “will be developed over time” to remodel the insufficiently designed spaces, Wittwer said. Shops, restaurants, a ballroom and Orascom’s offices on the ground and mezzanine floors will also open next year.
So only 10% of the total rooms will be used. Somewhat disappointing.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:46 AM   #3934
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Guardian also wrote about the [probable...possible...maybe...well, who knows?] opening >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...oom?CMP=twt_gu
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 03:03 AM   #3935
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So only 10% of the total rooms will be used. Somewhat disappointing.
They really dont need anything more than that considering how many tourists they get per year.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:23 AM   #3936
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Older articles say it suppose to have 3000 rooms.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:26 AM   #3937
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So we know, for sure, of the Kempinksi hotel using the top floors, and Orascom using the bottom floors. I wonder which other tenants will sign up? Maybe some apartments for the North Korean Elites, as well...
I wonder what'll be in those smallish hexagonal shaped buildings on either side of the building?
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:27 AM   #3938
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And it is no where near to be the tallest hotel in the world.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:29 AM   #3939
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I wonder what'll be in those smallish hexagonal shaped buildings on either side of the building?
Probably the reception area of the hotel.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:47 AM   #3940
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And it is no where near to be the tallest hotel in the world.
It would be the second-tallest hotel-only building, but it will be mixed use.
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