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Old November 5th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #3961
Alien x
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Nope, it would not be the end of the chain, you honestly think that they didn't require Orascom and the DPHK to sign that the building is safe before they agreed to the deal? If anything would happen to the building then these papers would immediately be published by Kempinski and no judge outside of the DPHK would ever consider them guilty of anything. Tenants are not responsible for the building they occupy, the constructors are. Kempinski would be the victim in this case and no personal assault you throw against me will change that.
So you are telling us that high end hotel chain is not going to have its people make sure that everything has been built according to their standards. Signing a piece of paper is ridiculous if as according to you its going to collapse. That does not happen in n. korea and certainly does not happen in any other country. No company or person in their right mind would put their name on a building they did not have inspected on their own.
There is no judge that will consider them not guilty. They are both guilty (towards their clients) and victims (of the contractor), one disaster and the chain is gone.
You are constant spam assault (of trying to pedal personal opinion as proven fact) and nothing will change that.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 11:21 PM   #3962
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No offense, but believing that even a minor tenant will make an extensive structural analysis of a building in one of the most secretive nations in the world and will do so even despite it not being in the interest of the owners of the building is very naive. The DPHK was naive when they let the EU inspection in, I doubt they would be so naive again.

Also, I'll give you a tip, don't consider a signed paper a piece of garbage or you could quickly loose all your money and rights. In the world of law signing of contracts or documents is the alpha and omega. And there is no law that would place guilt on tenants for the destruction of a building they're renting if they didn't cause the collapse. Especially if the owner and constructor have signed an official declaration that the building is safe. The owner and the constructor are the guilty ones in this case. Trust me, Kempinski would be the victim. And being the victim brings in sympathy.

Btw, you ever heard the term business risk-taking? Companies do it all the time if the potential profit is high enough. Western companies too, take News of the World for example. Listening to calls of famous people was risky as hell, yet they had no problem making it. They didn't make it outta fun, they made it because they considered the profit from it being worth it. I personally think this is the case of Kempinski too however without knowing the contract between the DPHK, Orascom and Kempinski none can know whether this is the case or not.

Btw, I said that it has the potential to collapse on its own. That means it is possible, but not inevitable. That means that renting it isn't certain doom for the personnel, just potential doom and most companies would go for it if the profit is right. And most of the personnel there would be North Korean and they won't sue anybody if the government doesn't want them to do so.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:36 AM   #3963
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How seismicly ready is this building? Under the skin the quality of build looked prety shotty
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Old November 6th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #3964
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Nobody knows.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #3965
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kanto knows
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Old November 6th, 2012, 08:21 AM   #3966
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EU inspection knows.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #3967
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EU inspection knows.
You mean the EU Chamber of Commerce in Korea based in S. Korea knows.

@kanto
Risk taking does not mean blind faith. I do risk analysis on projects (investments) for a living and would never give go ahead for an investment on a property with out have a independent inspection of that property. That is how risk assessment is determined not by signing a piece of paper, especially in a case where there is speculation on the structural stability and you have limited knowledge of the country.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 12:06 PM   #3968
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When will the grand opening be?
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Old November 6th, 2012, 01:41 PM   #3969
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You mean the EU Chamber of Commerce in Korea based in S. Korea knows.

@kanto
Risk taking does not mean blind faith. I do risk analysis on projects (investments) for a living and would never give go ahead for an investment on a property with out have a independent inspection of that property. That is how risk assessment is determined not by signing a piece of paper, especially in a case where there is speculation on the structural stability and you have limited knowledge of the country.
The question I have, though not being directly about this building, is, would you give go ahead to risky illegal listening to phone calls of famous people? Because a prominent company did that. Also, in the recent days a part of a bridge under construction here in Slovakia collapsed. The company building it faces charges for being responsible for another bridge collapse where people died. Yet our government had no problem hiring it to build highway bridges. Would you give a go ahead to that?

What I want to say with this is that prestigious companies do risky moves all the time if they see the potential for profit as being very big. Without knowing details of contracts none can know what money has been offered for what services. Also, much isn't even in the contracts for the world of big business is full of bribing. With all of this I'm not saying that people in Kempinski were surely bribed or that Kempinski as a whole surely will get enormous profit so they surely decided to take the risk. This is not what I say. I only say that this is a possibility just as your theory is and because of that the events around Kempinski's decision can't be used to determine the status of this building. All of this is speculation, but so is your speculation about what Kempiski found and what it didn't find. My point is only that speculation can't be used to determine facts.

As to the earthquake resistance of this building. Only the EU chamber of Commerce knows for sure but judging by the fact that the building uses low quality concrete I bet the earthquake resistance of it is very poor.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #3970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
The question I have, though not being directly about this building, is, would you give go ahead to risky illegal listening to phone calls of famous people? Because a prominent company did that. Also, in the recent days a part of a bridge under construction here in Slovakia collapsed. The company building it faces charges for being responsible for another bridge collapse where people died. Yet our government had no problem hiring it to build highway bridges. Would you give a go ahead to that?

What I want to say with this is that prestigious companies do risky moves all the time if they see the potential for profit as being very big. Without knowing details of contracts none can know what money has been offered for what services. Also, much isn't even in the contracts for the world of big business is full of bribing. With all of this I'm not saying that people in Kempinski were surely bribed or that Kempinski as a whole surely will get enormous profit so they surely decided to take the risk. This is not what I say. I only say that this is a possibility just as your theory is and because of that the events around Kempinski's decision can't be used to determine the status of this building. All of this is speculation, but so is your speculation about what Kempiski found and what it didn't find. My point is only that speculation can't be used to determine facts.

As to the earthquake resistance of this building. Only the EU chamber of Commerce knows for sure but judging by the fact that the building uses low quality concrete I bet the earthquake resistance of it is very poor.
So deaths of hundreds of guests is the same as: spying on famous people, a bridge under construction collapsing... etc. WOW.
Yes all is speculation and use of suspect facts, and you are the biggest offender in that regard.
EU chamber of Commerce job is to promote commerce for the EU members. Basically a marketing machine for promoting the EU oversees and not a specialized outfit to survey structural concrete. Like everything else involved with both sides of Korea it is a political tool.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #3971
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Quote:
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As to the earthquake resistance of this building. Only the EU chamber of Commerce knows for sure but judging by the fact that the building uses low quality concrete I bet the earthquake resistance of it is very poor.
Again, just speculations. How do you know that the inspectors did not just say hotel was in bad condition for political reasons?
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Old November 6th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #3972
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So deaths of hundreds of guests is the same as: spying on famous people, a bridge under construction collapsing... etc. WOW.
Yes all is speculation and use of suspect facts, and you are the biggest offender in that regard.
EU chamber of Commerce job is to promote commerce for the EU members. Basically a marketing machine for promoting the EU oversees and not a specialized outfit to survey structural concrete. Like everything else involved with both sides of Korea it is a political tool.
In both bridge collapses people have died and many more were injured. But that is not the point. The point that both of the examples that I offered were examples of major risks being taken with a vision of vast potential profit. That was the point of the comparison, not how many people died

As to what is speculation, the EU inspection is not speculation, that is fact. The EUChoC has absolutely no reason to declare the Slaughterhotel unsafe if that isn't the case. It isn't a propaganda company as you describe it. They have absolutely no stake in the Slaughterhotel. That is why they are trustworthy.

The notion that they are not an engineering company is super nonsense. As I said many times before, their normal employees surely didn't inspect the building. The building was inspected by professional engineers that were hired for that job. Most buildings are not owned by an engineering company, the owners of them just hired an engineering company to engineer the buildings. That is how stuff works
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Old November 6th, 2012, 03:37 PM   #3973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
As to what is speculation, the EU inspection is not speculation, that is fact. The EUChoC has absolutely no reason to declare the Slaughterhotel unsafe if that isn't the case. It isn't a propaganda company as you describe it. They have absolutely no stake in the Slaughterhotel. That is why they are trustworthy.
The European Community Chamber of Commerce in Korea may have representative from each Europe country that has a interest in having business with South Korea. The people they employ, their delegrates, the company they have a relationship with should still be mostly South Korean.

While the so called delegrates of the ECCoC in Korea might be qualified building inspectors in South Korea, the team may not necessary have the best interest to say anything positive about North Korea, we don't know so we can't claim "they have no reason to declared it unsafe".
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #3974
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The problem in my opinion is that every organisation or company in the world may hypothetically have a conspiracy interest on pretty much anything. This means that if one would not trust anything which has an hypothetical chance of being a conspiracy then nothing on the internet could be trusted. Therefore I think that only companies with increased interest in a matter should be considered dubious because increased interest is the breeding ground for manipulation of the truth. Buying an item, renting it or otherwise gaining money with it is in my opinion increased interest. The DPHK, Orascom and Kempinski have this increased interest in the Slaughterhotel. The EUChoC not.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:16 PM   #3975
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Maybe Kanto secretly likes this building since he is trying so hard to justify it sucking, despite only having some obscure, vague report made a decade and a half ago by enemies of North Korea.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 01:03 AM   #3976
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Nope, just trying to bring in some facts to the thread. It can desperately use some of those
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Old November 7th, 2012, 01:26 AM   #3977
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No, you just like disrupting this thread. And no offense, but there are quite more people here who have facts as well who disagree with you. And they're not brought on by assumptions of North Kora, but by understanding how businesses would make good investments, and signing up to tenant in a soon-to-collapse buildings is not one of them.

Plus your arguing is kinda pointless since the building most likely won't collapse in our lifetime (if ever)
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Old November 7th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #3978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
The problem in my opinion is that every organisation or company in the world may hypothetically have a conspiracy interest on pretty much anything.
Chances that the reports is bias, or did not reflect the whole truth, is significant if it was from South Korea.

Quote:
This means that if one would not trust anything which has an hypothetical chance of being a conspiracy then nothing on the internet could be trusted.
That is right, you can't trust anything with full faith on the internet, especially everything quoted is at best second hand information.

---

The press are very resourceful, there is a group of building inspectors, structural engineer, on site 25 years ago, if the press did have access to the original report, surely the report must include the name, positions and role of each inspector, each engineer involved.

If the original report did say the building is beyond repair, etc, and now they decide to repair it, to open it, then the press (maybe not all, at least some newspaper or TV) will no doubt find at least some of those inspector or engineer and interview them.

There doesn't seems to be anything (from a English search) that anyone has ever try to contact those inspector to comment. It is likely no one knew who are those inspectors, no one have access to the original reports, and no one knew exactly know the full analysis of the original inspection.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 07:14 AM   #3979
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Really the true test will come after the grand opening and seeing how long it stands, if it becomes an Empire State Building of North Korea I would consider it a success.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #3980
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Quote:
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As to what is speculation, the EU inspection is not speculation, that is fact. The EUChoC has absolutely no reason to declare the Slaughterhotel unsafe if that isn't the case. It isn't a propaganda company as you describe it. They have absolutely no stake in the Slaughterhotel. That is why they are trustworthy.
Bringing truth to the masses KANTO, brings us Slaughterhotel . You automatically disqualify your self as a credible person.
Do you know what a chamber of commerce (in foreign country) does and what its purpose is? Clearly NOT.
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