daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Supertalls > Proposed Supertalls



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 18th, 2012, 06:39 AM   #4081
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,580

Found some more actual construction pics.
[img]http://oi50.************/2442nol.jpg[/img]
[img]http://oi50.************/34qo0ie.jpg[/img]

Last edited by ThatOneGuy; November 18th, 2012 at 04:45 PM.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 18th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #4082
krkseg1ops
Registered User
 
krkseg1ops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kraków - dawna stolica Polaków
Posts: 1,930
Likes (Received): 1186

nice one!
krkseg1ops no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 01:21 PM   #4083
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3547

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltinD View Post
You go by the name 'architec', and are posring on an architectural forum, about an architectural structure ...... so for consistency sake, can you just talk about the subject at hand and not politics (provided you have the capability to comprehend what's being said to you)?
Who are you to insult him? Are insults your only arguments?

Btw, ThatOneGuy, there is a crime (at least in Slovakia it is a crime) called Holocaust denial. Here is an excerpt from wiki:

Quote:
Holocaust denial is the act of denying the genocide of Jews in the Holocaust during World War II.[1] The key claims of Holocaust denial are: the German Nazi government had no official policy or intention of exterminating Jews, Nazi authorities did not use extermination camps and gas chambers to mass murder Jews, and the actual number of Jews killed was significantly (typically an order of magnitude) lower than the historically accepted figure of 5 to 6 million.[2][3][4]
Holocaust deniers generally do not accept the term denial as an appropriate description of their activities, and use the term revisionism instead.[5] Scholars use the term "denial" to differentiate Holocaust deniers from historical revisionists, who use established historical methodologies.[6] The methodologies of Holocaust deniers are criticized as based on a predetermined conclusion that ignores extensive historical evidence to the contrary.[7]
Most Holocaust denial claims imply, or openly state, that the Holocaust is a hoax arising out of a deliberate Jewish conspiracy to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other peoples.[8] For this reason, Holocaust denial is generally considered to be an antisemitic[9] conspiracy theory.
The north Korean holocaust is similar to the Nazi one in both nature and extend. Denying it is just as much a disgusting mockery of its victims as denying the Nazi one is

Now can we go please back to discussing the building?
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #4084
Piussi
Registered User
 
Piussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Geel, Belgium
Posts: 487
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by architec101 View Post
Just because she wondered into the place did not mean they should have shot her and homelesses in US are by their choice. I was talking about Norks(children and adults alike) staved by millions. There are clear differences. The giant statues of dead leaders must be blown up skyhigh someday soon, NK commie stupidies! Like you've said. Back to the topic.


yeah you go and live on the street because you want too...
__________________
############
############
############
############
Piussi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #4085
AltinD
The Modecator
 
AltinD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: TIRANA / Dubai / Vienna
Posts: 31,832
Likes (Received): 6077

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Who are you to insult him? Are insults your only arguments?

Btw, ThatOneGuy, there is a crime (at least in Slovakia it is a crime) called Holocaust denial. Here is an excerpt from wiki:



The north Korean holocaust is similar to the Nazi one in both nature and extend. Denying it is just as much a disgusting mockery of its victims as denying the Nazi one is

Now can we go please back to discussing the building?
I am so sorry Kanto for your total failure to understand what this forum is about, I really am.
__________________
I am the eye in the sky, Looking at you
I can read your mind
I am the maker of rules, Dealing with fools
I can cheat you blind.

AltinD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 04:04 PM   #4086
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,580

I am not a holocaust denier! I've never denied people are killed in mass numbers in NKorea!

What do you want to discuss the building for? You just repeat the same pessimistic stuff over and over again and using that one photo. I tried to keep it back on topic, but nobody seems to want it to stay that way.

My interior modelling for a hypothesized room in this building is about halfway done, I should post it soon.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #4087
krkseg1ops
Registered User
 
krkseg1ops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kraków - dawna stolica Polaków
Posts: 1,930
Likes (Received): 1186

Thanks a lot, man, appreciate your efforts here.
BTW, why has this discussion deranged into (nonexistant) holocaust in DPRK?
krkseg1ops no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 04:59 PM   #4088
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3547

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
I am not a holocaust denier! I've never denied people are killed in mass numbers in NKorea!

What do you want to discuss the building for? You just repeat the same pessimistic stuff over and over again and using that one photo. I tried to keep it back on topic, but nobody seems to want it to stay that way.

My interior modelling for a hypothesized room in this building is about halfway done, I should post it soon.
I am not using one photo. I used 4 photos ONLY to show the significant decay on the facade. All the other facts are NOT based on the photos, but on the EUChoC report.
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #4089
Oljua
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
But you posted a clip of a commie block construction. How is that going to help with anything in regards to Ryugyong? Are you suggesting they used the same method for 330m concrete goliath as for tiny blockhouses?
The construction methods are similar except they were done on a much larger scale in the case of the Ryugyong. You could see this in the construction models of the Ryugyong that were on display at the exhibition and on the first video I posted in this thread.

I wanted to, however, offer those who are interested in the strength of the building a better understanding of the techniques used in its construction by using that as an example.
Oljua no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #4090
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,580

[img]http://oi46.************/2mmboyd.jpg[/img]
[img]http://oi49.************/dfekxs.jpg[/img]
[img]http://oi49.************/2hgqopj.jpg[/img]
[img]http://oi50.************/2lvy0as.jpg[/img]
[img]http://oi50.************/11bhh7k.jpg[/img]
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #4091
krkseg1ops
Registered User
 
krkseg1ops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kraków - dawna stolica Polaków
Posts: 1,930
Likes (Received): 1186

There will definately be no 'welcome' doormat!
krkseg1ops no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #4092
krkseg1ops
Registered User
 
krkseg1ops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kraków - dawna stolica Polaków
Posts: 1,930
Likes (Received): 1186

Great stuff, though!
krkseg1ops no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #4093
stefanv
Registered User
 
stefanv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 269
Likes (Received): 339

So those images of yours show your vision of a suite not a regular room, right? Anyways nicely done!
stefanv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2012, 12:10 AM   #4094
ooh
Registered User
 
ooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,332
Likes (Received): 15

WTF? How on earth did you work that out? How did you get room dimensions, type of furniture they are going to use? Seriously.

This whole thread is full of assumptions, it's really quite boring. Again, no-one can possibly know what this building is going to be like when completed!

And finally, ThatOneGuy you really are blind/stupid/bit of both if you genuinely think that NoKo is some sort of reasonable culture where they only prosecute and kill their people for legitimate reasons, and only build nuclear weapons because they're poor. Recently dozens of senior military officials were killed (and in a horrific manner) for very minor issues that many think were made up so that they could be removed from office.

And maybe if they stopped investing so much money into the military, some of their poor people could eat?

There is a documentary (readily available on youtube) from Shin Dong-Hyuk, one of a very few people to escape a North Korean prison. The accounts are pretty terrifying.
Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYjo...eature=related.

It's in 2 parts. Find the time to watch both, it might just open your eyes a little.

Please please please, anyone who thinks that NoKo is some sort of nice place or reasonable society, do some research, listen to eye-witness accounts, read reports from escapees. Not everywhere in the world is a nice place, get out of your bubbles.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by redden View Post
Thanks billyb; that was an erection to remember.
ooh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2012, 12:30 AM   #4095
AltinD
The Modecator
 
AltinD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: TIRANA / Dubai / Vienna
Posts: 31,832
Likes (Received): 6077

Ok, ''nice'' and all that .... BUT! How's that polical/ideologic rumbling related to the subject of this thread?
__________________
I am the eye in the sky, Looking at you
I can read your mind
I am the maker of rules, Dealing with fools
I can cheat you blind.

AltinD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2012, 01:11 AM   #4096
Cardinal-Biggles
Architectural Designer
 
Cardinal-Biggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 35
Likes (Received): 65

^ I've been away for a bit...I realize people are taking the discussion as becoming too political, which in part, I believe has to be. Why?

As I originally commented, I don't care too much for North Korea, I don't sympathize nor support their cause and abuse of human rights. So that out of the way, regarding the structural integrity of the building, there are a few people on here that are under the belief that it is structurally sound because of a report detailing the calculations and such. I PERSONALLY believe that that report is not too be trusted, just like anything that is released by the North Korean government, because of its previous and ongoing secrecy and censorship they impose. Because said report was released with their collaboration, it should be taken with a grain of salt; and the collaborating firm could have easily been paid to release a positive report.

Going back to arguments used against me, if I thought there were some people familiar with structure and engineering in SkyscraperCity, then I don't believe so anymore. I used examples of structurally sound structures that failed or were predicted to fail with consequences. ThatOneGuy said those structures are irrelevant....irrelevant how? To use an example I mentioned with the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, which is also high-end engineering. If people on here know any engineering, bridges are some of the most highly engineered structures due to their long spans and the amount of live load and lateral loads that are imposed into the structure, which is the same as a Skyscraper, that takes a higher lateral load than dead load. But it failed, despite having engineers.

Now the Ryugyong Hotel, it stood 15 years with exposed concrete, which is bad because any exposed rebar as seen in a few pics, get rusted. What happens when rebar gets rusted? It expands and extends, which leads to cracks in the concrete. Cracks are normal in concrete, but not when caused by rebar, which in the US, has to be taken apart. I asked my Structures professor about it, and he said that yes, it is difficult to determine whether it is stable, but more likely it is not, due to the deterioration of the structure due to the elements.

Also, just commenting on ThatOneGuy's SketchUp model...the building is a hotel (or destined to be one), so that mock up is not one of a hotel but a residential mock up. A typical hotel room is about 560 square feet, with utilities at the entrance, and a larger living area facing the windows. There's plenty of case studies that show hotel layouts.
Cardinal-Biggles no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #4097
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,580

@ooh It's funny, because nowhere did I ever say that North Korea is a reasonable place. I just listed why they build such weapons in the first place (to prevent being invaded, because they're poor), and why, maybe, they suddenly started building power stations for more electricity, increased modernization (to 90s standards, at least), and finally allowed some western businesses like Orascom and Kempinski to operate there. Just maybe, they want to stop being so poor. Fox News would most likely say it's all just for propaganda and the money the country is getting from all this goes only to dear leaders to increase prison rates. Naysayers are so eager to try and protect their dogmatic views that they have to use strawman arguments against me.

--"North Korea might be thinking of becoming richer. The recent modernization and the permission for western businesses to operate there is evidence."
--" SUCH LIES HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT IF PEOPLE ARE KILLED THERE"
--"wtf..."

Also, I never once said that that would be exactly how the hotel rooms will look like. I explicitly stated that that is what I would imagine a hotel room looking like, especially since a high-end hotel chain is managing it. Even so, I was generous and included an outdated TV there.

I'll bet Kanto and Ooh imagine the rooms will look like this:

Last edited by ThatOneGuy; November 19th, 2012 at 01:48 AM.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2012, 01:37 AM   #4098
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,580

@ Cardinal Biggles There must be a reason those structures fell very shortly after completion, while this stood fine, pretty much unharmed, for 15 years. Tacoma Narrows fell because the road it was carrying didn't factor wind stress. The walkway had faulty support connections. Engineers today learned from those mistakes. The most cracks I see were on the outermost layering of concrete, on the sloped side. On the vertical sides, which hold the most weight, I didn't see any cracks.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2012, 01:47 AM   #4099
Cardinal-Biggles
Architectural Designer
 
Cardinal-Biggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 35
Likes (Received): 65

Despite mocking Kanto and Ooh, but your "imagined" hotel layout is still wrong. As I mentioned, a hotel layout has an explicit generic layout, regardless of the chain. A hotel developer/chain has standards for their rooms which are similar to say another one. The differences lay in the square footages, but they rarely deviate from their program formula. A larger hotel room/suite also have typical layouts that are based on width, but what you "imagine" is not a correct hotel room. Hell, even the kitchen is not in an appropriate place, as they use utilities, they are placed in the back portions of a room...I apologize if I sound like I'm bullying you, but I can't take you seriously if you try to sound like you know what you are talking about, when in reality you don't.
Cardinal-Biggles no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2012, 01:54 AM   #4100
Cardinal-Biggles
Architectural Designer
 
Cardinal-Biggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 35
Likes (Received): 65

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
@ Cardinal Biggles There must be a reason those structures fell very shortly after completion, while this stood fine, pretty much unharmed, for 15 years. Tacoma Narrows fell because the road it was carrying didn't factor wind stress. The walkway had faulty support connections. Engineers today learned from those mistakes. The most cracks I see were on the outermost layering of concrete, on the sloped side. On the vertical sides, which hold the most weight, I didn't see any cracks.

Oh wow, you just said it yourself, cracks on the sloped side. I said it before, a typical structure bases structure on dead load more than gravity. That changes on a Skyscraper, as wind loads (lateral loads) become the main concern rather than dead load. It can easily be seen because of the weight of the materials anchors the building somewhat down, but because the tower is essentially an upright cantilever, then you see why wind is a problem. You mentioned the cracks on the slope, which I can see as cracks due to tension or compression due to winds.
Cardinal-Biggles no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
asia, north korea, potonggang-guyok district, pyongyang, ryugyong hotel

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium