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Old November 29th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #4221
mrfusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
That is a lie. What I listed are facts and I have no problem explaining why. I see I have a lot to debunk again:

1, Why the EUChoC report is true: Because it is done by NEUTRAL people from a NEUTRAL institution managed by trustworthy nations such as South Korea and the European Union. This is enough to make it as trustworthy as it can be on the internet.
No, you don't even know the people who was involved in the inspection, so you have absolutely no idea if they are NEUTRAL. Actually, you don't even know if they ever did an inspection. No one can claim they saw the report.

You are saying there is no reason the South Korean are bias or popogate fake inspection reports because you could not think of a reason.

And don't be fool by European Union that it is done by westerner and all westerner are honest, it is European Union Chamber of Commerce in Korea, while it have representative from Europe, the office employ mainly South Korean.

The Korean can claim Duanwu festival originate form them, what creditibility can they possibily have, god know what sort of fake history they teach their people.

Your source is as weak as those Macedonian report.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #4222
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
And here you are claiming your opinion to be fact yet again.
Like I said, you don't know to what extent the South Korean based EU report (which is anti North Korean) tells the truth, and you don't know to what extent the Rotterdam report lies. Speculation. Tell me exactly where your evidence is, other than the pure opinion on and biased guessing, due to the location, that the Rotterdam report is faked. Show me anything that the South Korean "report" listed that is actually specific and gives true info.
"Sources say" is not proof, because 'sources' can say anything. If 'sources' said this building is only hanging by one interior support, would you believe it?

Thatoneguy... you are correct. South Korean media has been divided with many journalists quiting their jobs and went on strike, because the conservative politics have place a convervative CEO's into KBS/MBC (Korean TV Stations) without VOTE as required by contract; this lead to people quoting their jobs, because they did not wanted to become mouth piece for convervation government; this happen in last 5 years when Lee Myung Bak became president; Lee has been not much as democratic president, but rather divider of South Korea.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #4223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
That is a lie. What I listed are facts and I have no problem explaining why. I see I have a lot to debunk again:

1, Why the EUChoC report is true: Because it is done by NEUTRAL people from a NEUTRAL institution managed by trustworthy nations such as South Korea and the European Union. This is enough to make it as trustworthy as it can be on the internet.

2, Why the North Korean/Macedonian report is fake: First of all that is not a Rotterdam report. It was only published in Rotterdam and in the free world pretty much anything can be published anywhere, so the Netherlands have absolutely nothing to do with this report. The report is North Korean and Macedonian. But back to the main question, why it is fake. Well, that is pretty much obvious, it has Noeth Korean coauthors and that together with the fact that it speaks pro-Slaughterhotel is proof enough that the report has absolutely no credibility and can be described as propaganda. Any North Korean who would say something bad about something North Korean would go immediately into Yodok together with his/her entire family. Even if they would just let the Macedonians to write negative stuff about the hotel they (the North Koreans) would go straight into Yodok. If North Koreans are involved in a report it automatically means that it can have only one result, no matter what's true and what's not. This is the reason why the North Korean/Macedonian report is less trustworthy than John Lear's Dulce papers.

3, Why sources matter and details not: I explained in the previous two paragraphs how one source is completely trustworthy and the second one is completely untrustworthy, so that settles that point. As to details, thinking that a report is true because it has details or that it isn't true because it hasn't details is absolutely wrong and misguided in every aspect. First, every ammount of details can be faked. Any engineer could fake an entire detailed report with ease. Second, nearly all information on the internet and therefore also in magazines deals with only the main points released on a press conferrence of a scientific institute or another form of institute. Details are not included because those outside of the scientific community could not understand them and would get only bored by reading them. Trust me, I work with science articles and nobody would read a full detailed report in the afternoon with a tasty cup of coffee. Third, the entire lust for details is misguided because it can continue into infinity. First you want to know what tests they did, then you can continue to want to know how they did them, after that you can demand knowing about what they were thinking when they were making those tests ........ this can continue to infinity.

There ya go, all of the info I provided in this post are proven facts and they completely debunk your theories.

Your quote has been from South Korea Media where journlists were fired or quit because of conservative president Lee Myung Park. Those journalists who choose not to OBEY were fired. Also conservative politics has chosen a CEO for KBS/MBC (Korean TV stations). KBS/MBC employees are on strike as CEO are chosen by VOTE per contract; but conservative politician do not believe in VOTE unless it benefits them. South Korean is divided right now because conservative have assigned positions in media which SELECTIVE choose information of their choosing. Amnesty Human Rights of South Korea is ON strike; guess what conservative politican places a politician as CEO Amenest of South Korea for POLITICS. Get your fact from people who do not see NoKor as enemies for fair and complete information.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #4224
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People should back off from negative political views influencing this Hotel and all of the engineers/architects who worked on this building. People who don't like NoKor should go choose another site. This site is progress on this building and information pertaining to this building, not about NoKor politics/government. Don't be like Kanto who only see "NoKor as evil and everything in Nokor including this building is evil", not once has Kanto stated anything good about this building.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #4225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfusion View Post
No, you don't even know the people who was involved in the inspection, so you have absolutely no idea if they are NEUTRAL. Actually, you don't even know if they ever did an inspection. No one can claim they saw the report.

You are saying there is no reason the South Korean are bias or popogate fake inspection reports because you could not think of a reason.

And don't be fool by European Union that it is done by westerner and all westerner are honest, it is European Union Chamber of Commerce in Korea, while it have representative from Europe, the office employ mainly South Korean.

The Korean can claim Duanwu festival originate form them, what creditibility can they possibily have, god know what sort of fake history they teach their people.

Your source is as weak as those Macedonian report.
The people involved in the report are the engineers hired by the EUChoC and EUChoC is neutral and trustworthy. Unlike the North Korean/Macedonian report, there is absolutely no information that would shed any doubt on the EUChoC report. I already explained that details of the report don't matter because details can be just as easily faked as simple statements of the main issues. The facts remain the same, if the EUChoC says something good about North Korea, nobody will care. However if North Koreans say something bad about North Korea, BAM, Yodok. Seriously, watch some documentaries and you'll learn that North Korea is the least trustworthy country on the planet. On the other hand South Korea and the European Union are among the most trustworthy countries in the world, so you see, my source is as strong as it can be on the internet.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #4226
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Kanto, these people did NOT do any test or technical survey on the building, so stop bullshitting
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Old November 29th, 2012, 09:38 PM   #4227
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Of course they did, otherwise they couldn't assess the things they assessed. Since they managed to learn these things and the EUChoC was trusting in their results enough to acknowledge that they were working for them, I am absolutely certain that they indeed did all the necessary tests. You can't deny that this report was indeed made, it is on too many trustworthy webpages

Also, there are some other things to consider, they aren't any sort of scientific proof, but I think they should be considered if one wants to assess the situation of this hotel. These things are the photographs. The report says the elevator shafts are crooked, well, we can't see them but we can see the facade and it is, guess what, crooked. The report also says that the concrete is weak and substandard, well, we don't have samples in our hands but we can see that before Orascom's restoration, the concrete on the facade was in a far worse condition than all other similarily abandonned buildings I've ever seen. Alone this means nothing, but I think it can at least partially be considered as validation of the EUChoC report.

Btw, I'm quite sadenned that when you don't have any arguments left you resort to the usage of foul language
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #4228
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Can you link to the ACTUAL report ... as a start
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Old November 29th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #4229
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AltinD he will try to sneak his way around that question, and dismiss everything else as lies simply because it's not bashing North Korea.
I've said what I have to say, and nobody has given a single, specific, proven fact that says my explanations are wrong, apart from ones based on unfair and biased guessing based on hatred for the location, so for the sake of the others trying to enjoy the thread, I won't continue this.
Some pictures I don't think were posted here before:

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Old November 29th, 2012, 11:27 PM   #4230
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very nice
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Old November 30th, 2012, 12:17 AM   #4231
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Kantotards, not going to say anything against your arguments here, but the way you use them could be better.

If you have multiple things to say, do so in the same post, please. Reading post after post after post by a single member, each with exactly one argument in it, is annoying and makes you seem a lot less professional. Keep things to one post until somebody posts after you. In general, "double posting" is a disturbing anomaly, triple posting is annoying, quadruple posting makes it look like you're trampling over common forum etiquette, magnifying every negative opinion your reader has got from your post.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 12:50 AM   #4232
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+1, Not to mention acting like that will get him banned rather fast.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 08:36 AM   #4233
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Time to lock and delete this thread and mass ban troublemakers
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Old November 30th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #4234
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Mod should create a thread in the Korean Skybar and move all irrelevant, anti-NK and anti-Kanto post to it.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=379.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 09:04 AM   #4235
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Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post


Time to lock and delete this thread and mass ban troublemakers
Don't lock the whole thread just ban the troublemakers. There are only two really spoiling it for everyone else. No loss in getting rid of them.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #4236
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Troublemakers? Just because they have a different opinions doesn't mean these forumers are troublemakers. A thread is for discussion between people with negative opinions and people with positive opinions. It isn't just a place where people with positive opinions have their monologue and repeat a handfull of cliches like "It's awesome" or "I love this building" over and over again. Negative opinions belong into this thread just as much as positive opinions do. Witchunters like you are worse than spambots or trolls

As to AltinD, I already explained to you that details don't matter because they can be just as easily faked as simple lists of findings. I also explained how press releases work, so I have successfully debunked your detail lust.

And as to ThatOneGuy, speculation isn't fact just because it wasn't disproven. If an UFO contactee tells you that he has been on a trip to Venus and slept with a grey alien, you have no way of disproving him either. Would you consider his story to be fact just as you do with your own stories? I have given plenty of supportive evidence of the EUChoC report, however you haven't provided a single grain of evidence about your theory. That's the big difference. I explain, you speculate.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 04:50 PM   #4237
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As to AltinD, I already explained to you that details don't matter because they can be just as easily faked as simple lists of findings. I also explained how press releases work, so I have successfully debunked your detail lust.
bllah bllah bllah .... link to the actual report please or post a copy of it.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #4238
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I don't have a link. I have only a ton of articles with the report's results. However, I don't need a link because as I explained earlier, details aren't proof of authenticity. Bob Lazar provided details too, yet his whole story is one big lie. If you want to see the articles with the results of the report let google search ryugyong hotel concrete quality and you'll find them.
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Old December 1st, 2012, 01:14 AM   #4239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
I don't have a link. I have only a ton of articles with the report's results. However, I don't need a link because as I explained earlier, details aren't proof of authenticity. Bob Lazar provided details too, yet his whole story is one big lie. If you want to see the articles with the results of the report let google search ryugyong hotel concrete quality and you'll find them.

Is there any way you can copy and paste some of the contents of these articles into a post? I agree with you regarding the fact that they are probably not authentic, but it would still be interesting to see some of this stuff!
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Old December 1st, 2012, 01:00 PM   #4240
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I will post links since Erbse once explained that entire articles shouldn't be posted. Even BBC has the findings of the true report in an article. I will now post some of the links to the true report. If you want to see more google EU Chamber of Commerce Ryugyong Hotel or EU Ryugyong Hotel concrete quality

The true report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20178985

http://www.quora.com/Architecture/Wh...s-in-the-world

http://happygoluckyworld.com/tag/ryu.../#.ULniZ4P8IUU

http://www.triposo.com/poi/W__45397243

http://sometimes-interesting.com/201...-the-ryugyong/

http://www.unfinishedbuildings.org/ryugyong.html

http://www.orientexpat.com/forum/131...een-it-before/

http://architectuul.com/architecture/ryugyong-hotel

http://www.encyclopedia4u.com/r/ryugyong-hotel.html

http://www.theruggedgent.com/2012/01...eas-deathstar/

http://www.asianinfo.org/asianinfo/n...rea/hotel2.htm

http://openbuildings.com/buildings/r...l-profile-1690

http://www.hotelowner.co.uk/index.ph...ally-open.html

http://www.liverpoolwired.co.uk/news...open-next-year

http://www.londonwired.co.uk/news.ph...open-next-year

And here is the fake report:

http://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/art..._vol5_2789.pdf

http://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/art..._vol6_3263.pdf
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