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Old April 21st, 2013, 07:26 PM   #4821
Kanto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltinD View Post
And where is your argument ... i.e. the report and the supporting evidence presented?
I've already posted the evidence, it's on page 236 of this thread with the link to the book I found being on page 238 of this thread I believe This is factual, this is the hard evidence you want to find but it doesn't fit into what you would like to be true and therefore you subjectively dismiss it.

And no, I don't have any hidden agenda. The search for the truth is my only agenda and I am searching for it independently and objectively.

And it is you who disrupts this thread. The discussion we are having here is perfectly on topic (seriously, nothing can be more on topic than discussing the engineering status of this building). Neither of the two sides of this argument disrupts this threat by this discussion, however you disrupt it because you use insults as arguments and insults are disruptive of any thread they are located in. If you would just state your opinion in a civilized manner you wouldn't be disrupting this thread and everybody who is willing to look at and judge both sides of the argument would be happy
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Old April 21st, 2013, 09:13 PM   #4822
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Come on kanto. the discussion may be "on topic", but it looses that status when you keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Give it a rest, and until you can trace the original report, there's no logic to bring that thing up over and over again.

And no, there is no evidence. Some articles quoting other articles about some other people that allegedly heard some people 20 years ago, saying something about a building they might have visited, are not evidence.
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Old April 21st, 2013, 10:28 PM   #4823
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I repeat them because nobody has debunked them. On the other hand I successfully debunked all objections to the facts I presented. I also explained that there is no need to find the original report, because its findings and authorship have been successfully and trustworthily preserved by countless credible articles. I also explained that credible articles that list both conclusive findings of a report and the source of the report are in absolutely no way inferior to an original report. I won't deny that I would love to see the original, nor that I am still searching for it from time to time, I only say that it is not needed to find the original report in order for my findings to be fully conclusive and fully trustworthy.

You seem to wrongly assume that second hand input in all forms is a negative factor, yet you seem to forget that all reports and studies are published by people who haven't been part of the reports/studies themselves. These things are published in prestigeous journals and databases, which aren't related to the authors. It is virtually impossible to get a report or study on the web without second hand input. This isn't true only for press releases but also for full original studies. If on the net you wouldn't accept anything that has second hand input in it you couldn't accept 99,9999999999999999% of everything you ever saw on the net. This is just how things work.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 01:36 AM   #4824
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Where SHOULD the original report be?
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 02:46 PM   #4825
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It definitely should be in the EUChoC archives. However the organization received a complete reboot in 2012 so it remains an open question to what extend does the new EUChoC (ECCK) manage files from the old EUChoC (EUCCK).

As to the internet, I've searched for it quite a lot and haven't found it. While it is easily possible that it is out there and I just didn't have luck in my searches, there is also a very high probability that the report is not on the internet because it is from the late 90's at which time the internet was still in its infancy (for comparison, SSP was created in 1999 and SSC in 2002).

But I will keep looking for the report if I have enough free time to spare. I would definitely like to read and post it
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 03:21 PM   #4826
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How come a report from late 90s is not on the Internet yet 4 different studies 1992 'from North Korea' are?
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 03:40 PM   #4827
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1, All those studies are from the same institutions, so they should be regarded as 1 study.

2, I never said that all texts from the 90's aren't on the internet, I merely said the majority of them aren't there. There can be countless reasons why this one text is on the net. For example universities and institutes use to work together so the Macedonian univeristy might have very well given their archives to the Indian institute on which's page it is located as a token of cooperation.

Ever heard of the term publishing studies just for publishing's sake? Universities do it all the time, they try to publish as much as possible even if the published research isn't worth much just so they can show they are actvie and ask more funds from the government or other sponsors. Institutes do this same too. And even publishing other institution's research is a sign of activity of an institution that can get it more funding.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 03:56 PM   #4828
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If you are trying to explain yourself why your data is worthless, you are not doing well. I have actually gone as far as emailing ECCK and querying the report. Let's see what they say about this.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 04:51 PM   #4829
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stop it guys.
if it's some great article I'll read it.
But if it's a bunch of words just to attack someone's opinion (though we all know you all have not made it to North Korea, leave alone confirming your reports/data ), no one cares. too long to read.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 06:31 PM   #4830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
If you are trying to explain yourself why your data is worthless, you are not doing well. I have actually gone as far as emailing ECCK and querying the report. Let's see what they say about this.
Ignore list works wonders especially for people like Kanto. He loves to stir up bs in any topics that he posts.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:33 PM   #4831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
If you are trying to explain yourself why your data is worthless, you are not doing well. I have actually gone as far as emailing ECCK and querying the report. Let's see what they say about this.
Again, all you're offering are your opinions. I on the other hand have sources. Evidence has a far greater weight than wishfull opinions. But as another forumer said, let everybody read the evidence and make up their own opinions. A researcher can't (and shouldn't) make decisions for other people. All we can (and all we should) is offering evidence.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 10:50 PM   #4832
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[IMG]http://i34.************/33ndz5f.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i34.************/21llwfd.jpg[/IMG]
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 11:51 PM   #4833
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The city is surreal, I must visit it... I've seen pictures of lots and lots of great monuments, statues and to be honest the city looks clean and beautiful.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 12:06 AM   #4834
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Looking at that cityscape, it struck me as quite odd how such a big and dense city not has a single billboard in sight.

Also wondering what Pyongyang would look like if a reunification ever were to happen (peacefully). It would be in for one mother of a renovation job, and the outcome would be quite interesting to see. Perhaps it would gradually become like Seoul, with modern buildings rising up, year for year overtaking the old communist buildings? Or would it turn out like Murmansk, with most of the population moving south as soon as they were allowed to? Or like Kabul, where people move from the countryside to the capital by the millions, because that's where all the jobs and infrastructure are?
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 12:16 AM   #4835
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Are you referring to advertising billboards, cause that's obvious and expected not to have any.

We had billboards in Communist Albania, but they were propaganda ones
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 11:11 PM   #4836
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I like how city is turning more colorful each year
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Old April 24th, 2013, 04:38 AM   #4837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webeagle12 View Post
I like how city is turning more colorful each year
Pyongyang looks tackiest among all major cities in the world.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 06:09 AM   #4838
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You only say this because you hate the country. No more, no less a reason. I can easily list 10 tackier ones.

Kanto, I can forgive you for what you claim about this building, because I can't care less about you or your nonsense anymore, but I cannot forgive you for suggesting the media is unbiased. It's not even subjective. It's a fact. The media is biased. The corporate media giants cannot tell only the truth or else they will stumble upon something that goes against their agendas. They need to support their agendas or they won't keep up in the competition. It's Media support like this that so many people lead an unfullfilled life as a faceless, compliant office drone controlled by society's expectations. Freedom of Expression drains with strength of the media.
An example of where media sensationalism has damaged society: real music has drained dead due to the Media's agenda that cheap autotune rap is 'cool.' It's easier to sell, due to autotune being cheap and easy to mass-produce, and therefore they make more money. Boy-Bands are formulized to get little girls' money. Political correctness, another example enforced by the media, allows for compliant masses.

Bias, by definition, is a strong incline to a particular viewpoint. Calling something a negative name indicates bias. Denying this is delusion. The only objective name is its official title. The sheer fact that this hotel has a bad nickname supported by the Sensationalist Media only further supports my theory that 80% of the hate comes from location and history. This building has such sensationalist claims written against it in order to make North Korea look worse. Why make it worse? To build up support for west's viewpoints and to ignore their contribution (imposing of sanctions) to NK's overall arming.

If the Twin Towers were in Pyongyang, they would be called the 'Slabs of Doom' or 'Bricks of Death.' Or Sears Tower the 'Black Blob of Sorrow"

Also, how can a report about a NK building from early 90s be online but a SK report from late 90s not be? Especially from such a "trusted institution?"
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Old April 24th, 2013, 02:12 PM   #4839
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I said most reports from the 90's aren't online, not all reports from the 90's aren't online. I already explained in my previous post that this is essentially random and that univeristies and institutes cooperate together and like to spam reports and studies wherever they can in order to get more funding from their government. This publishing spam is the dark side of academic life.

As to your hipster fundamentalist rant, believe what you want, but don't distort what I'm saying. I never said that all media are unbiased, nor did I say that the media are unbiased in everything I only said that the media aren't biased in the case of this hotel, I only spoke about the hotel. And in my opinion the articles I provided are not biased. And no, nicknames aren't biased either. Your shouting how everybody is biased in all directions is typical for a hipster fundamentalist
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Old April 24th, 2013, 02:36 PM   #4840
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Stop the bullshit discussion here. I already prove you wrong so you might move this pointless spam generation to PM. No pictures, stfu. There is nothing else to discuss that haven't already been discussed.
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