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Old November 2nd, 2013, 04:29 AM   #5121
N.Y.C.H
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I personally do not like the design, but is definitely a nice achievement for any country to build something this tall. What the country does in its affairs has nothing to do with this skyscraper, or this page really.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 04:30 AM   #5122
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I had a nightmare a few days ago:
I was in NK to see the celebrations for the opening of the Ryugyong. Instead of fireworks, the tower blasted off like a rocket and then turned into thousands of paratroopers who tried to shoot at the crowds. Hilarious...

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Why are there no cars on the roads?
I was in Connecticut last Sunday, driving in the middle of the forest, no sign of life around the highway but so many cars and a traffic jam.
I was wondering, who are all those people, where do they come from and where are they going?
Same happens in MA also and all over the states I guess.
So, my answer to you is more like a question:
Why are there so many cars in the middle of nowhere?
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 05:10 AM   #5123
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Interesting




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Old November 3rd, 2013, 02:01 PM   #5124
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i hope when north korea is free one day the united korea will not decide to tear down all the sculptures and such, but instead keep them all as a reminder of the history of the country and city. too many imposing things have already gotten built, would be a shame if they would go down with the regime. if most of it will get tear down we at least have this building, the tower and the big gate that will most likely stay as a tourist attraction
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Old November 3rd, 2013, 02:50 PM   #5125
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Who knows. The tower is unsafe so there is good reason to tear it down, however I wouldn't be surprised if they would let it stand. In many countries, even some democratic countries the officials have no problems letting unsafe buildings stand as long as they generate money and I can imagine tourists wanting to take a photo of it just to get a feeling of how the country looked like under dictatorship.
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Old November 3rd, 2013, 03:43 PM   #5126
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If only you could tell the concrete company Orascom, and all the workers that worked on this tower for a decade's worth of time, with their heavy rattling machinery, just how soon it could collapse at any moment.
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Old November 3rd, 2013, 03:55 PM   #5127
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I wonder if all the mechanical systems are in place and powered up? What would happen to such a large tower if no heat or AC was keeping the temp and humidity stable inside?
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Old November 3rd, 2013, 03:57 PM   #5128
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It's probably not much different from other on-hold towers across the world.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 04:12 AM   #5129
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Free or not, the tower will stand forever.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 10:52 AM   #5130
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Not according to Kanto's Special Study on Ryugyong Hotel's Feasibility, signed by none other that European Union's Chamber of Commerce, a very legitimate and respectable private corporation.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #5131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
Not according to Kanto's Special Study on Ryugyong Hotel's Feasibility, signed by none other that European Union's Chamber of Commerce, a very legitimate and respectable private corporation.

Kanto is quoting a article by South Korean conservative news paper. According to news paper, no European ever visits the skyscrpaper, but South Korean "business" representatives who visited the skycraper which was still under construction for couple hours as a "Visit" not as audit; this was part of investment opportunities. But as usaul jounalists like to make conclusion, based on words as "likely, probly, perhaps, possibly", and other journalist copy that article and claim as conclusion. Jounalism is not where you should learn facts, especailly, architecture. Jounalism should be taken as entertainment especially if there are politics involved., not facts.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 08:00 AM   #5132
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Quote:
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Why are there no cars on the roads?
Only top government officials get cars.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #5133
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So how is this tower unsafe?
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Old November 5th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #5134
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It uses poor quality concrete and has crooked elevator shafts. As to the severity of these faults, they can't be a minor thing because the building has been deemed irreparable
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Old November 5th, 2013, 10:35 PM   #5135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Oh yeah, the whole world is being misled by the nasty independent international organizations but there is hope, because you have a secret source (which of course you won't show us) which can undo all the wrongs that have been inflicted on the hotel by the whole world ........ I wonder when the Illuminati and alien greys will join the story
Your quote is as good as mine. But jounalists are not known to cover complete facts. You have not shown South Korean source that states your claim yet....are you cherry picking your information? You should not use this site for your negative propaganda. Surely there is many hateful site against North Korea which you should express your personal opinion on politics. By the way, the whole world don't hate North Korea like your media portrays; learn to think for yourself or you become just another media slave.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #5136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
So how is this tower unsafe?
It's mostly the steorotypes of North Korea that make people want to believe that it's unsafe. Apparently, according to anti-NK western media, there was a trip at some point in the 90s by the EU/South Korean chamber of commerce into the secretive building site for an undetermined reason, and they deemed it 'irrepairable', despite not giving real facts or any details. Just baseless comments. The rest of the people, due to being led to believe that everything NKorean is bad, have no problem accepting this unproven claim, and they spread the myths further. It's like the time people said that the Benidorm skyscraper had no elevators. No facts, yet people still swallowed it up.

I wish I could write my essays without proper citation or evidence, like the media does. It would make my life so much easier

The concrete/communications company Orascom said that they found little wrong with the building, and they decided to invest 300 million dollars in its reconstruction.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #5137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
It uses poor quality concrete and has crooked elevator shafts. As to the severity of these faults, they can't be a minor thing because the building has been deemed irreparable
Are you an expert who built this skyscraper or are you claiming journalists who are not architects? You sound very arrogant; you better have some concrete evidence before accusing others of wrong doing. None of your statement uses the words "likely, perhaps, possibly" like journalists, as if you have confirmed evidence. Politicians and journalists should not be source of your conclusion, especially in the field of science, engineering, and architecture.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #5138
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Quote:
Your quote is as good as mine. But jounalists are not known to cover complete facts. You have not shown South Korean source that states your claim yet....are you cherry picking your information? You should not use this site for your negative propaganda. Surely there is many hateful site against North Korea which you should express your personal opinion on politics. By the way, the whole world don't hate North Korea like your media portrays; learn to think for yourself or you become just another media slave.
There is no South Korean source, there is a joint South Korean and European Union source and I have shown 23 sources which used this source. 23 is not 0. Also, just as you said, this is not the site for conspiracy theories, so you and ThatOneGuy shouldn't be posting. It is clear that you are the ones presenting a conspiracy theory since my sources prove that the fact that the hotel is unsafe is an accepted fact on the international scene.

Quote:
It's mostly the steorotypes of North Korea that make people want to believe that it's unsafe. Apparently, according to anti-NK western media, there was a trip at some point in the 90s by the EU/South Korean chamber of commerce into the secretive building site for an undetermined reason, and they deemed it 'irrepairable', despite not giving real facts or any details. Just baseless comments. The rest of the people, due to being led to believe that everything NKorean is bad, have no problem accepting this unproven claim, and they spread the myths further. It's like the time people said that the Benidorm skyscraper had no elevators. No facts, yet people still swallowed it up.

I wish I could write my essays without proper citation or evidence, like the media does. It would make my life so much easier

The concrete/communications company Orascom said that they found little wrong with the building, and they decided to invest 400 million dollars in its reconstruction.
Funny that you say it cause you are writing essays without proper evidence. In all of your arguments you have provided only 1 single source and even that one was easily debunked. I presented 23 sources from which not a single one was debunked.

And we have real facts and details, we know that the building is irreparable because of poor quality concrete being used. Also we know that the elevator shafts were crooked. These are all real facts and details. Yourvivid fantasy recreation of an inspection you never witnessed speaks really volumes for itself. None of us was there. Credible sources say that this was a real engineering inspection and therefore there is no basis to expect something as naively incompetent as you wrote in your essay.

Also, since when does the word of an accused party at court represent a proof. You honestly believe that a company would ever admit to work on an unsafe building? I mean, they do it all the time, just a few months a bridge under construction has fallen and killed several workers, but obviously, the company won't admit that they've done something wrong. That would be suicidal behavior.

Quote:
Are you an expert who built this skyscraper or are you claiming journalists who are not architects? You sound very arrogant; you better have some concrete evidence before accusing others of wrong doing. None of your statement uses the words "likely, perhaps, possibly" like journalists, as if you have confirmed evidence. Politicians and journalists should not be source of your conclusion, especially in the field of science, engineering, and architecture.
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I am not arrogant, I am merely objective and the objective fact is that there is only a single independent report ever done on the structure of this hotel. I reported the findings of this report. It aren't my claims, it are the claims of the engineers who inspected the building for the European Union Chamber of Commerce. And yeah, I have evidence, actualy 23 ones that I have already posted but I can do so again if you'd like.

Also, a journalist can report a finding just as well as a scientist can. When studies get publish, guess where they are published, that's right in journals. Journals are run by journalists. Are you telling me that everything that is published somewhere is not to be trusted? That's a rather paranoid approach if you ask me.

But once again, we see you folks write essays without any source at all. So if this is all true, where are your sources? I can provide 23 sources for the information I present in a blink of an eye. I have posted them in the Unsafe Skyscrapers thread in the Scyscrapers section of the forum but just ask me and I will post them here as well, since this is the thread for such a discussion. After all, this is more on topic than your political essays.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #5139
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Your comments never fail to amuse me. There are literally no words to describe your logic. It's like the epitomy of circular reasoning. Sources have authors, dates, publishers, and do not come from mainsteam media sites. You literally would fail immediately if you used that type of reasoning to prove your claim in the type of essays I have to write for class.

You realize that all the things that collapsed/failed were only recently completed at that time? A building collapsed in Colombia a few weeks ago and that was only less than a year after completion. This has stood for nearly 30 years, through the elements and reconstruction, perfectly fine. Also, if they did find it unsafe, why would they take the risk to work on it in the first place? Why would they risk the 300 million dollars?
Tourists from foreign countries would use this building, and their countries would get mad at the company. Not to mention that the tourism industry is very important to North Korea, and they they treat their tourists well (western media source, like you want http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22077585), so North Korea would get mad at them as well.


Anyway...
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Old November 7th, 2013, 01:01 AM   #5140
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One thing can be said for certain: The thing stands upright today, and it has stood upright for two decades now. Probably it will remain upright for many years to come.

North Korea, like every other country, does educate and employ civil engineers. The laws of physics can't be changed to account for juche ideology, so it is a fair assumption that those engineers learn pretty much the same as engineers elsewhere, facts that don't change no matter if the teacher or the student is a "starving commie" (the shortest form of the North Korean stereotype I could find). After all, there are regularly built new buildings in North Korea, and as far as we know most of them stay upright the way they are supposed to.
Also keep in mind, that with all the militarization of the country, they probably know a thing or two about concrete. They have lots of experience from building bunkers, fortifications, tank traps, the like. While the most extraordinary concrete building principles might not be taught in their schools, they probably know how to make the stuff solid. After all, the survival of a significant portion of their troops (and possibly, civilian population) would at some point depend on their bunkers withstanding the forces they were built to withstand. In such a situation, a country would not neglect giving their engineers proper education and knowledge about the materials.

These engineers - military or civilian - would probably have been consulted before work was restarted on the Ryugyong Hotel. If the building, which already had been noted for its half-finished uglyness abroad, was in any imminent danger of collapse, it would probably have been dismantled. Instead, time and money was invested in giving it a nice facade, and a foreign hotel group was invited to start up a hotel in there.


Herein lie the uncertainities. Even if the building isn't on the brink of collapse, doesn't have to mean it works completely as it should. It might have been deemed safe to put the facade walls up, but also decided that running a hotel would have been a safety risk. Perhaps some floors would have sagged a little if they put in heavy furniture. Perhaps the elevator shafts have had slight deformations, requiring them to install smaller elevators than the shafts were built for (thus reducing capacity). Perhaps the fire performance of the building was poor, meaning that installing flammable interiors would have posed a risk. There are lots of steps between "waiting to collapse at the poke of a finger" and "meeting adequate safety standards for housing a hotel", it's not like it's a choice between the one or the other.

My guess is that the tower is structurally sound, as-is, but unfit for housing a hotel all over the building. From the photos Kanto have posted, we can deduce that something is wrong with it, but it might not be critical enough to warrant a demolition of the tower. The situation isn't dire, but it's not optimal either. Perhaps the problems could be fixed with enough money and effort, but it isn't priority at the moment. Either way, it's standing there today, having become an endorsed landmark of Pyongyang now that the cladding is in place. In its half-finished state, it was edited out of post cards and guides were forbidden to speak of it. Now it's embraced as a signature building of the city, albeit it's acknowledged that nothing goes on in there for the time being. If it's too expensive to be torn down, and stable enough not to cause concerns of collapse, but in a too poor state to be used for its original purpose, one might as well give it some polish and call it a landmark. I guess a further report of its structural integrity will be available when Korea reunites, or if North Korea pull a Myanmar and reform. I think it will remain standing for quite a few years either way.
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