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Old June 5th, 2015, 05:41 PM   #5521
humptydumpty7
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source: http://www.kldr.estranky.cz/fotoalbu...ng-nove-fotky/


Quote:
alright, lets see a hotel room.
the lobby?
an office?
the restaurant?
Maybe in 5 years?
International firms (like Kempinski) want to move in, but the plans are on hold due to difficult market entry (especially instable political situation):
http://www.nknews.org/2013/03/kempin...n-north-korea/
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Old June 6th, 2015, 03:15 AM   #5522
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What a landmark!

No other city would be able to pull this off.
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Old June 8th, 2015, 12:27 PM   #5523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
O rly:
Also, random troll above, Did you speak to DPRK Ministry of Infrastructure about this? Can you give me links to the decision to not progress the construction further? Didn't think so either.
Who are you to bully forumers like this. He was absolutely right, there has been no progress at all since they clad the building and put the antenna on top of it. That is the reason why it is on hold. Also, speaking to a DPRK ministry means absolutely nothing because it is a North Korean institution which says only what Kim wants it to say

As to Kempinski, I have serious doubts that it ever intended to take this hotel. Now we might never know what its intentions were but I have a feeling that all of its "interest" was just a public relations stunt bought by the North Korean government.

As to the famine, I agree with HumptyDumpty, it started just after the initial construction period of the hotel, however I was reffering to the second run of construction in the years 2008-2009. The famine, while not as severe as it was during the 90's is still there to this day and is still deadly, yet despite this Kim ordered hundreds of millions to be spent on cladding the hotel instead of buying food. Imagine how much food could have been bought for those millions. This is the true travesty of this grotesque building.
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Old June 8th, 2015, 01:30 PM   #5524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
[...]however I was reffering to the second run of construction in the years 2008-2009. The famine, while not as severe as it was during the 90's is still there to this day and is still deadly, yet despite this Kim ordered hundreds of millions to be spent on cladding[..]
You are misinformed.
NK didn't pay for the cladding. Foreign investment made the finishing of the cladding possible.
It was part of a deal with Orascom for building a 3G network.
They could use the hotel tower for their transmitter masts if Orascom also paid for finishing the exterior.

The NK government didn't invest in the tower for 2 decades, because of your stated reasons (hunger and bigger problems)

The country is still poor, but poverty doesn't mean starvation.
NK's days of starvation are long gone. Things are getting better:

Quote:
The predicted famines (by intl. organizations) never transpired, but the stories continued to be released at regular intervals, nonetheless.

This year, North Korea enjoyed an exceptionally good harvest, which for the first time in more than two decades will be sufficient to feed the country's entire population.
Contrary to what a majority of people tend to believe, the last decade has been one of moderate economic growth.
full article on the growing NK economy:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...439924471.html


Quote:
Drought-hit North Korea seen able to avoid food crisis

"Food supplies had improved and production has been at the highest levels, resulting in the lowest shortfall last year since the mid-2000s.

Supply this year will be even more stable and any shortfall is likely to be met sufficiently by imports," said Kwon Tae-jin of the GSnJ Institute in Seoul, an expert on North Korean agriculture
.
full article about current NK agriculture:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0OG09F20150531
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Old June 8th, 2015, 02:11 PM   #5525
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Yes, Orascom payed for the cladding, however if it was willing to pay for the cladding of a building, which it will use only as an antenna, it would also have be willing to pay for food. Yet Kim didn't demand that Orascom pays for food, he demanded that Orascom pays for the cladding of the building. That is the issue here.

As to the famine, as I said, it isn't on the monstrous level it used to be, however it is still there. The articles you posted speak of the situation becoming better, but better doesn't mean good or even acceptable. For example the Al Jazeera article also said:

Quote:
A significant part of the population is still malnourished, and the average North Korean family considers itself reasonably affluent if they can afford a new bicycle.
There are also many articles which claim that the situation is far worse than that:

http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...oops-starving/

http://www.channel4.com/news/north-k...ainst-humanity

http://www.northkoreanow.org/the-cri...n-north-korea/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-starving.html

http://www.trust.org/spotlight/North-Korea-hunger

http://www.livescience.com/26677-nor...nnibalism.html
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Old June 8th, 2015, 03:34 PM   #5526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Yet Kim didn't demand that Orascom pays for food, he demanded that Orascom pays for the cladding of the building.
so that the money for food could again disappear in the military?
who would prove/guarantee that the money would reach hungry people?

A bigger problem are the US sanctions on NK banks, as financial transfers to the country are no loger possible, endangering several aid agencies:

Quote:
"This could eventually reduce our ability to carry out projects or even force a complete close down," Mathias Mogge, director of programmes for German aid group Welthungerhilfe.
"Millions of North Koreans could be affected."
and also interesting:

Quote:
Experts have said Washington's move was designed to make international banks that do business in the United States think twice about dealing with North Korea.
http://www.trust.org/item/20130522171412-1wjeq/?source=spotnewsfeed

so basically any foreign investment in NK is impossible since those sanctions (including Kempinsi's investment in the hotel)

NK regime won't let go of their nuclear program to secure its survival within the country and the US puts financial sanctions to keep the economy dead, in order to pressure NK.
its a vicious circle.

its a miracle that not more people are hungry, despite the harsh sanctions and 80% of NK being mountain area (=farming not possible).

my point: its too naive to blame the building or it's cladding for NK's extremely comlicated geopolitical situation.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 12:52 AM   #5527
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It's not the United States job to take care of North Korea. North Korea doesn't like the United States and thus the United States doesn't like them. It all goes back to the war, and relationships haven't been mended. I agree with Kanto, the hotel is not as important to the country as food or even more economic stability in homes.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 09:58 AM   #5528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (: View Post
North Korea doesn't like the United States and thus the United States doesn't like them.
NK needs the US as a threat to keep their military-first policy and justify their dictatorship, and the US need NK to be "dangerous" so they can justify all their military bases in South Korea and Japan.

Without a threat from NK the US don't have an argument to keep their heavy military presence in Asia.
They're both interdependent. A grim game of power where the poor NK citizens are the losers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (: View Post
I agree with Kanto, the hotel is not as important to the country as food or even more economic stability in homes.
exaclty. that's why the project is stalled since 2 decades.
unfortunately, economic stability won't come with those heavy sanctions.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 10:01 AM   #5529
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I dont like but is still amazing
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Old June 10th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #5530
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public instagram feed of a Russian girl living in Pyongyang.
source: https://instagram.com/lady_katherina__/
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Old June 10th, 2015, 11:22 PM   #5531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humptydumpty7 View Post
so that the money for food could again disappear in the military?
who would prove/guarantee that the money would reach hungry people?

A bigger problem are the US sanctions on NK banks, as financial transfers to the country are no loger possible, endangering several aid agencies:



and also interesting:


http://www.trust.org/item/20130522171412-1wjeq/?source=spotnewsfeed

so basically any foreign investment in NK is impossible since those sanctions (including Kempinsi's investment in the hotel)

NK regime won't let go of their nuclear program to secure its survival within the country and the US puts financial sanctions to keep the economy dead, in order to pressure NK.
its a vicious circle.

its a miracle that not more people are hungry, despite the harsh sanctions and 80% of NK being mountain area (=farming not possible).

my point: its too naive to blame the building or it's cladding for NK's extremely comlicated geopolitical situation.
It doesn't matter whether the money goes to the hotel or to the military, as long as it doesn't go to food it is an atrocity. No matter how complicated the geopolitical situation might be, it is still made out of individual atrocities just as no matter how big an object is, it is still made out of individual atoms. Just because there are countless atrocities that the North Korean government has done doesn't mean that a single one of these attrocities can be overlooked. Any atrocity must be condemned, this hotel and any other out of the thousands those commited by the regime - that is not naive, that is noble and right.

I don't want to get too much into politics but I'd like to note that I wholeheartedly support the sanctions against North Korea. Those sanctions are a defense mechanism against the sadism and evil of North Korea. Without them, North Korea would be more able to export its atrocities outside of their border. The war between North Korea and South Korea, the US and Japan is not just a war between some factions, it is a war between good and evil. No country on this planet is perfect, though in general the US, South Korea and Japan are free, honorable and good. On the other hand North Korea is pure evil - sadism is evil, malevolence is evil, brutality is evil, slaughter is evil, torture is evil, tyrany is evil and these are the very fundamental virtues of the North Korean government. Good people not only have a right to defend them selves from sadists, they have a duty to defend themselves from sadists. On the other hand evil regimes don't have a right to exist - sadism has no right to exist, malevolence has no right to exist, brutality has no right to exist, slaughter has no right to exist, torture has no right to exist, tyrany has no right to exist ........ and this is why the North Korean government is the only one responsible for the misery of the North Korean people and why I wholeheartedly support the sanctions against this band of sadists.
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Last edited by Kanto; June 10th, 2015 at 11:41 PM.
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Old June 11th, 2015, 02:25 AM   #5532
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Please let's stick to the topic.
Anyone intrested in [talking about NK political or economical issues]/[generically bashing NK] will surely be able to find pletoras of places where [those issues are discussed with more insight]/[you can post funny memes on Kim's hairstyle and have much more fun].



PS: btw according to WHO life expectancy in NK is 70 years, just one year short of the world average, more than Russia, India or Pakistan, while sub-saharan Africa is 65 to 45...
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Old June 11th, 2015, 10:31 AM   #5533
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one last off topic comment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Those sanctions are a defense mechanism against the sadism and evil of North Korea.
...and against 24 million citizens, who need economic development. congrats, this supports the NK's propaganda that the west is evil and Kim will "save" them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
No country on this planet is perfect, though in general the US, South Korea and Japan are free, honorable and good. On the other hand North Korea is pure evil.
Yes, the NK regime is very bad.
But remember, almost all relevant news that we receive about NK comes from South Korea or the US - their enemies.
In every war there is war propaganda on both sides.

More intersting is the question: where does NK's hate against the US or Japan come from?
- Japan conlonized Korea and half of Asia for decades (google Unit 731 or Nanjing Massacre to see how "honorable" they were)
- Who forcefully seperated both Koreas after world war II?
- The US dropped 250,000 pounds of napalm on cities in NK per day during the Korean war and there are accounts that they tested biological warfare in NK
- The US dropped 2 (!) nuclear bombs on civillians during world war II

The regime perfectly instrumentalized the fear against the US, making the people belive that it can happen anytime again and they need Kim to protect them.
Thats why the government can spend 25% of ther budget for the military, while people hunger. The Kim dynasty needs the people's fear of war with the US.

The conflict could be ended if US troops left South Korea and Japan.
Then the NK regime would lose all their propaganda arguments and there would be no legitimacy for the regime and their military-first policy.

China is also an important player: They don't want NK to break down, mainly because then they would have US troops directly at their border.
They need North Korea as a "buffer zone".

But of course the US would never leave Korea, its strategically extremely important.
Also they make a buttload of money by selling arms to Korea and all around Asia

So basically every nation in power around NK is interested in keeping the current status.
Its an evil game of power on all sides, the only ones who suffer are the citizens.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 10:07 AM   #5534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humptydumpty7 View Post

public instagram feed of a Russian girl living in Pyongyang.
source: https://instagram.com/lady_katherina__/
I believe she is either working at a Russian embassy there or wife of someone working there.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 05:43 AM   #5535
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It seems that there are quite a few North Korea sympathizers here.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 01:35 PM   #5536
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Just because someone like the hotel they already are NK sleeper agents? Why do you even come here apart from spewing crap? This is a construction forum, go to http://www.ihatenorthkorea.com and spam there.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 02:43 PM   #5537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (: View Post
It's not the United States job to take care of North Korea. North Korea doesn't like the United States and thus the United States doesn't like them. It all goes back to the war, and relationships haven't been mended. I agree with Kanto, the hotel is not as important to the country as food or even more economic stability in homes.
Their job seams to be starving them to death instead
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 02:46 PM   #5538
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... and I see Kanto is still at it
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 12:52 PM   #5539
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from the instagram feed of an Indonesian guy living in Pyongyang with his kid and wife: https://instagram.com/jakaparker/






Pic taken from the top of an amusement park.
Source: instagram feed of a travel photographer: https://instagram.com/gonmuro/
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 05:45 PM   #5540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltinD View Post
Their job seams to be starving them to death instead
please, great leader will save them

kim jongun claims to have cured aids ebola and cancer with single miracle drug

if you have a way to kill off/fix the govt there while protecting the people, im sure the world would love to hear it.
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