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Old September 15th, 2010, 06:59 PM   #1721
Krattle
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Botswana, you're awesome. Keep up the good work.

I love how defenders of Socialism and communism try so hard to ignore the fact that your glorious socialist nations are nothing but hell holes. First of all, I'm not insulting the North Korean people; I think they *would* be just as productive and nice as everyone else in the world if they were simply allowed to live freely like the rest of us.

I love how you try to deny the plainly obvious fact that North Korea is a starved country, literally and figuratively. Their people are poor, have very few freedoms, they're starving (to the point where soldiers have to steal from farmers, but the farmers don't have enough fertilizer to make even enough food for the starving soldiers to steal - oh, and they use human feces as fertilizer). And then you say that all of this is just the lies and propaganda of the evil Western media. Well, if it's all just a lie and a fabrication, then why don't *you* travel to North Korea and see it first hand. And I don't just mean going on the pre-determined government tours that take you to see all the "glorious" socialist monuments built by slave labor, but I mean, really look around. Then come back and tell me if it's the great, prosperous, booming country you seem to think it is. Right...that's why the average person in the US makes $34,000 a year and we don't even know what it is in North Korea but Kim keeps all that information secret. They must be *so* prosperous that Kim can't let the world know!!!! Wake up and smell the s**t you're shoveling. You point to pictures of run-down commie blocks, massive avenues completely devoid of cars and pedestrians, and some stadium and say: look, see, it's a prosperous country! They have a stadium!!!!! So? The US has 10,000 stadiums. And how does a building represent prosperity? They tax their population to death in North Korea and build monuments to the Great Leader with their stolen money. Of course they can afford to build a stadium. But in America stadiums are built by private money, by money people *earned* through hard work. Kim Jong Il didn't work hard to steal money from his populous by taxing them onerously. How do abandoned streets show the prosperity of NK? Oh, so they built some glorious avenues with more stolen money, and now the people are so f*cking poor they can't afford a car to even drive down the d**n street! And then you shrug off pictures of slums in North Korea by saying that other countries have slums, too! I don't remember anyone denying that, I only remember people making the positive claim that North Korea has slums, not the negative claim that other countries do not have slums at all. Of course other countries do! There are tons of other poor countries in the world, but they're always the ones under the control of some dictatorship or communist regime. Big shock there. And then the most prosperous countries are the capitalist ones, to the extent that they *are* capitalist, because no country in the world is truly capitalist; they're all mixed economies. And yes there are cities in the US that approach the horrid conditions of North Korean cities. Yes, Detroit for one. But that's for a very simple reason. Detroit has been destroyed by "free" government housing projects and a welfare state. Not capitalism. That's more socialism.
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Old September 15th, 2010, 08:45 PM   #1722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krattle View Post
I love how...
I love how everything you wrote is the average opinion about North Korea in the West.
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Old September 15th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #1723
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Thanks Krattle. Sadly, all ainttelling seems to be able to vomit out of his limited vocabulary is the word "loser" and random insults, without even responding to the argument, much like most defenders of extreme socialism. Well, if he likes North Korea so much, he can live there. I'm sure he'll love living off of bread crust rations and being drafted into the army.

North Korea doesn't even follow socialism, it's called Juche and is a fringe spinoff of Stalinism. Why anybody would defend such a horrible country is beyond me. I think ainttelling is simply lacking a decent moral compass. This isn't even about capitalism vs. socialism, this is just common sense.
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Old September 15th, 2010, 10:49 PM   #1724
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I love how your sole argument against me, ainttelling, is your opinion that my opinion is the "average" one in the West. And? So? The fact that a lot of people (probably) believe the same thing I do no more negates said belief than it validates it. A large number of people could believe something to be true, and it turns out it is true. Or it could turn out that it's wrong. The number of people who believe it is irrelevant to the validity of the argument. Why don't you actually present a logical argument to counter mine instead of making ad-hominem attacks and totally irrelevant non sequiturs such as "my opinion is the average opinion." Again, so what? I think you'd find that your opinion is not so uncommon in the West as you think.

You do realize, ainttelling, that the only reason you are able to voice your opinions freely like this is thanks to freedom? The internet was invented by people in a free country, simply because they wanted to invent it, and it was offered to people freely - you could buy it if you wanted or not if you didn't want to - and has spread freely around the world. You have the freedom to voice your opinions because of all these devices created by free people in free countries. Even if you live in Russia, the only reason you're able to buy a computer, connect to the internet, and say whatever you want, is because Russia is now (relatively) free and no longer a totalitarian, communist country. I don't know where you live but my guess is that it is not North Korea. How do I know that? Because the North Koreans don't have internet! And if they do, like at places of business, then they're highly limited in where they can go, what they can say, and when.

If you love North Korea so much, if you think it's a brilliant, prosperous, moral country that is not starving to death (again I mean that literally and figuratively) and not threatening the world with nuclear strikes, then go ahead and move there and live there for the rest of your life. Then come back and tell us how great it was. Go live in an aging commie block with no electricity except for a few hours a day when the power plants happen to be working well, or in one of those shacks, or maybe you can go live in that artificial city of empty concrete shells that Kim Jong Il created to show off his "prosperity" to the world. Tell me how much fun it is to farm your crops with human feces as your fertilizer, only to have the starving army steal your crops because the government is so broke it can't afford to pay them.

Even where I live - Boulder, Colorado - one of the most hippie, liberal, left-wing, guilt-ridden cities in the United States, they have conferences where they bring in refugees from North Korea who somehow managed to escape and tell their horrific stories of their country. How do those refugees and their tales of their horrific lives in NK fit into your story of North Korea as some happy candy-land where everyone smiles and has a wonderful life? Oh, and when you do go live in North Korea, have a fun time trying to get back out, because the border guards will blow your head off.

Last edited by Krattle; September 15th, 2010 at 10:57 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #1725
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BACK TO THE TOWER!!!!!
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:10 AM   #1726
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^Seriously!

This isn't a politics forum, and one-on-one discussions should be occurring via PM.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:48 AM   #1727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botswana View Post
You're defending North Korea on a skyscraper site. I think it's much more pathetic that you are obsessed about my forum life, which is rather creepy. Please do us all a favor and put yourself out of your misery and stop breathing my air.
Hey, this is a skyscraper forum, not a political forum, and this is about the hotel tower, not the regime. Take your yapping to the skybar if you want to derail this thread and spare the rest of us the annoyance.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:54 AM   #1728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krattle View Post
I love how your sole argument against me, ainttelling, is your opinion that my opinion is the "average" one in the West. And? So? The fact that a lot of people (probably) believe the same thing I do no more negates said belief than it validates it. A large number of people could believe something to be true, and it turns out it is true.
The average opinion about North Korea in the West is very one-sided. Does an average person in the West knows that there is an experimental free market zone in North Korea and that the Juche Idea does not oppose central planning to private initiative? Or about their commune system? Or that North Korea has several political parties? Or that famine has ended 15 years ago? Or that there is a strong Left-Wing movement in South Korea? Or that a South Korean pastor was recently thrown in jail because of his support for North Korea?

Usually nothing good comes out of political debates because affiliation with either Left or Right is akin to religion to some people. The best way is to guide others towards their own well-informed choices. My own fundamental views are very simple - all people in the world want to be happy, not just you or your country. There is a huge amount of wealth in a select few capitalist countries. But it was accumulated by artificial means - such as genocide/slavery/war and today - parasitary investment and immigration (both legal and illegal). Same cannot be repeated to bring the rest of the world out of poverty.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 05:34 AM   #1729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFenX View Post
Hey, this is a skyscraper forum, not a political forum, and this is about the hotel tower, not the regime. Take your yapping to the skybar if you want to derail this thread and spare the rest of us the annoyance.
My comment was about the hotel. I hope you seriously didn't expect me to not respond after being called a loser for commenting on its displeasing aesthetics by an egotistical ham.

But I am done responding to the intellectual midget known as ainttelling, I don't have time to deal with morons like that.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 07:34 AM   #1730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strandeed View Post
would any of you guys spend a night there?
Honestly... After seeing a lot of concrete behind the glass panels are seen like they're not stable enough to hold the entire tower up for years or handle extra weight... No thanks. I'd feel better to spend a night there if they fix this structure issues.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 08:42 AM   #1731
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i would stay there, so there some structural issues, ive stayed in some shit holes in central america
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Old September 16th, 2010, 10:13 AM   #1732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperfreak2 View Post
Somehow, you believe that it will actually REVOLVE? ok

Of course it will revolve Ok



The Egyptian Contractors know what they are doing. Contractors are experienced non-North Koreans


When this baby is done I will consider going to North Korea!!! and staying in this hotel me and my brotha from anotha motha Kimmy
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Old September 16th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #1733
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The Egyptian contractors know how to use shims to straighten the curves, and cover up the defects in the structure the North Koreans screwed up so badly.
What would it take to find out if there actually will be rotating restaurants at the top? Recently we got some interesting info from a visitor to the DPKR. Maybe the locals know more than we do: The said they doubted it would be used as a hotel, ever.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 09:46 PM   #1734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperfreak2 View Post
The Egyptian contractors know how to use shims to straighten the curves, and cover up the defects in the structure the North Koreans screwed up so badly.
What would it take to find out if there actually will be rotating restaurants at the top? Recently we got some interesting info from a visitor to the DPKR. Maybe the locals know more than we do: The said they doubted it would be used as a hotel, ever.
Hello,

I am just back from a 5 day stay in the DPRK. I stayed in the Yanggakdo hotel. This together with the Koryohotel are the two main hotels in Pyongyang. My stay, begin september, is "highseason" in North Korea. Our hotel was a 43 or 45 storey (don't remember exactly) building of which only te 23th till 29th are in use for tourists. Also some lower levels are in use for locals and the rest of the hotel is dark. By accident we stopped at other floors and everything is dark there. I think it will never be used...So in my opinion, the need for another hotel is complete useless...unless they close the other 2.

As far as I was allowed, I have made some pictures of the Ryugyong hotel. We were not able to approach very close unfortunately. First I have to find out how to place pictures. I am a noob in this, but will figure it out, so soon I will ad some pictures.

Last edited by stevesteve; September 16th, 2010 at 10:23 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 10:26 PM   #1735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperfreak2 View Post
Somehow, you believe that it will actually REVOLVE? ok
I think it will..

Our hotel had a revolving restaurant and it worked and the koryohotel has 2 revolving restaurant, so Ryungyong can't go without one. The Northkorean like revolving :-)

I don't wanna go off topic, but I am a too big noob. I placed some pics on flickr, how can I get them correctly in this forum. Insert picture and then add the link doesn't work.....

Last edited by stevesteve; September 17th, 2010 at 07:41 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 12:23 PM   #1736
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You need to use
[ img]http://www.url.com/path/to/image.jpg[ /img]
without the black spaces before img and /img.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 07:43 PM   #1737
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here they are

Pictures taken between 7 sept 2010 - 11 sept 2010.

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

Last edited by stevesteve; September 17th, 2010 at 07:57 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 10:48 PM   #1738
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Thanks Finally some SSC user is making photos of this supertall on purpose to update us
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Old September 17th, 2010, 11:00 PM   #1739
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Great update! Thanks
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Old September 17th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #1740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesteve View Post
Hello,

I am just back from a 5 day stay in the DPRK....
@stevesteve: How did you go? Did you take a group tour with Koryo Tours, or did you go with another travel agency? How did you get the visa? How did you arrange that trip? What were the costs?

I would be grateful if you could give me some information about the planning and organisation of that trip as well as some references.

Thanks, /mibome
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