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Old December 20th, 2008, 03:38 PM   #1
CroydonDave
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London Trams

I just want to gauge people's opinion about adding the tram network to the London Underground map?

I realise that it is not the tube, but neither is the DLR or Overground. This is a TFL run light rail system operating in South London, why is it not included on the map?

This may seem really petty, but my interest is only in boosting the local economy and raising the profile of a often forgotten area.

Any thoughts?
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Old December 20th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #2
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I'd say no becuase it would confuse the map too much. You couldn't add all the stops and in the future we can but hope for more lines.
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Old December 20th, 2008, 05:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroydonDave View Post
I just want to gauge people's opinion about adding the tram network to the London Underground map?

I realise that it is not the tube, but neither is the DLR or Overground. This is a TFL run light rail system operating in South London, why is it not included on the map?

This may seem really petty, but my interest is only in boosting the local economy and raising the profile of a often forgotten area.

Any thoughts?
If you want maps, have you had a look at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1106.aspx There are loads of different maps there and you should be able to find one which would suit you.
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Old December 20th, 2008, 07:45 PM   #4
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Looking on http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1106.aspx, adding the tram to the tube map would look a bit odd, because only the western end would bear any relationship to the rest of the tube lines.

However, that is all about to change, with the Overground lines being added down to West Croydon.

So it seems an excellent time to start lobbying to add the tram line. Maybe it wouldn't be on the tiny maps in diaries, but it could be on the standard large posters.

You could look up the membership of the GLA Transport Committee and the GLA member for your borough(s), as well as some Chambers of Commerce, and start your lobbying there.
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Old December 21st, 2008, 03:08 AM   #5
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seen as tramlink is just an express bus service on rails (in terms of fares), putting it on a rail map would be wrong really
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Old December 21st, 2008, 01:07 PM   #6
CroydonDave
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But surely it can't be excluded on the grounds of fares?
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Old December 21st, 2008, 02:08 PM   #7
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The trams in South London are excellent. They speed along between East and West. Certainly feels faster than the DLR. They are also mostly segregated for their route. I think it can only be a positive to place it on the main tube map. Would highlight that there are places to live, breathe and work in the depths of South London! (albeit - they are dives).
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Old December 21st, 2008, 02:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroydonDave View Post
But surely it can't be excluded on the grounds of fares?
then lets put bus routes on the map too... oh wait, they already have
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Old December 21st, 2008, 03:06 PM   #9
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The public perception of rail-based transport is that it is reliable (usually), not affected by congestion (usually), and comfortable, because it does not have the accelerations in every direction of a bus.

So there is every difference in the world between trams and buses on the tube map.
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Old December 21st, 2008, 03:16 PM   #10
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This system only runs very short distances on roads, running mostly on old railway routes. Plus it is over 15 miles long which is why there are so many stops. That would be an unusually long bus route.

It is exactly the same type of service as the DLR.
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Old December 21st, 2008, 03:18 PM   #11
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Thank you, that is good advice.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 02:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
seen as tramlink is just an express bus service on rails (in terms of fares), putting it on a rail map would be wrong really
But it's run by TfL London Rail, not TfL London Buses. Now that TfL has brought the service back in house, I think they'll be keen to add it to the map. London Overground doesn't reach central London but it's included, so why shouldn't London Trams.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 03:03 PM   #13
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As a matter of interest, have the passenger numbers matched the predicted numbers before the system was built?




What is the local perception of the quality of the service provided?

It seemed that a lot of the windows had been etched, and there was felt-pen graffiti on the backs of seats the last time I used it. Can TfL reverse that problem?
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 03:14 PM   #14
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The trams are currently going through a refurbishment programme including a new colour scheme (in an attempt to further tie in the system to TfL's branding) so they'll certainly be in better nick... but for how long?

The new green coloured trams have slightly grown on me, but I still prefer the original red and white.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/londons...es/2949999426/
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 03:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaistow View Post
But it's run by TfL London Rail, not TfL London Buses. Now that TfL has brought the service back in house, I think they'll be keen to add it to the map. London Overground doesn't reach central London but it's included, so why shouldn't London Trams.
But London Overground has lots of places where you can change to LUL.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaistow View Post
But it's run by TfL London Rail, not TfL London Buses. Now that TfL has brought the service back in house, I think they'll be keen to add it to the map. London Overground doesn't reach central London but it's included, so why shouldn't London Trams.
because trams aren't grade segregated, they are street vehicles!

it's got nothing to do with running into central london
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 08:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somersetchris View Post
But London Overground has lots of places where you can change to LUL.
This is true. The Tram system only has one current link to the Metropolitan Line at Wimbledon. This will however change soon, with a link to East London Line at West Croydon and if the politicians are sucessful in the getting the Crystal Palace extension back on track then a third link at that station.

I am really interested in all of the comments made in this thread and thank everyone for their contributions. I have the interest of the local area at heart and truly believe that inclusion will bring many benefits to this forgotten and often unfairly judged area of the City. After all this is the same as the DLR. When friends visit the area from other areas of the city they comment on how much better the tram is to the tube and definably. ore modern. If TFL are going to draw money from this area then the people should benefit.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 09:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroydonDave View Post
This is true. The Tram system only has one current link to the Metropolitan Line at Wimbledon. This will however change soon, with a link to East London Line at West Croydon and if the politicians are sucessful in the getting the Crystal Palace extension back on track then a third link at that station.

I am really interested in all of the comments made in this thread and thank everyone for their contributions. I have the interest of the local area at heart and truly believe that inclusion will bring many benefits to this forgotten and often unfairly judged area of the City. After all this is the same as the DLR. When friends visit the area from other areas of the city they comment on how much better the tram is to the tube and definably. ore modern. If TFL are going to draw money from this area then the people should benefit.

District line runs to wimbledon not the metropolitan, and the east london line wont be part of London Underground when it's "extended" to croydon!
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 09:38 PM   #19
CroydonDave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
District line runs to wimbledon not the metropolitan, and the east london line wont be part of London Underground when it's "extended" to croydon!
Ok, apparently 'the big boss man' doesn't like the tram, it doesn't fit the post code snobbery of Londons Transport system (DLR). Can Croydon please leave Greater London. I want back into Surrey
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 09:42 PM   #20
CroydonDave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroydonDave View Post
Ok, apparently 'the big boss man' doesn't like the tram, it doesn't fit the post code snobbery of Londons Transport system (DLR). Can Croydon please leave Greater London. I want back into Surrey
We wanna bite of that exclusive pie!!!!! The tube map is a map.... NOt a work of art. If it ain't big enough, add an extra fold.
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