London Trams

[stimarco]

Originally Posted by Sesquip

Or, if road width allows, bring the guideway down to street level for the stops. They would look like bus rapid transit stations



I'm tempted to mock something up actually

Indeed, I've been suggesting most of the stations would be at-grade most of the route. It's by far the cheapest option, while also proving the best user experience: no stairs, no lifts—no need for any major civil engineering at all, for the most part.

I've been advocating using at-grade running wherever it makes sense to do so, rather than just building the entire system as a fully grade-separated one. The primary advantage of this approach is that at-grade stations will be, as you point out, much like bus stops or modern tram stops, with no need for expensive lifts and stairs as found on the DLR's overhead stations.

Only the congestion hotspots—e.g. somewhere like Peckham, Catford or Oxford Street—would definitely need full-fat, overhead stations and grade separated running. And even then, most of these centres have no shortage of buildings that could be adapted or replaced by something which can have a station built through it. E.g. both Catford and Peckham have large shopping centres that could easily accommodate something like this. Even Lewisham's enclosed one could cope with a line running above the shop level—there's ample ceiling height.

Once architects get to grips with the concept, you'd find very little need for large structures hovering above streets. Such lines could just as easily run parallel to the many High Streets of London as directly over them, so you'd just buy up one or two of the smaller shops and build the platforms out of sight, behind them.

That's the key benefit of a system which is built along these lines: you can think in terms of all three dimensions. The possibilities, in terms of routing and architecture, are huge.

The DLR has already shown some of the possibilities, including stations built right inside new developments, such as the rebuilt one at Heron Quays. The routing advantages of a suspended guideway are illustrated perfectly by the DLR, but that system's viaducts are visually very intrusive due to the nature of the technology. A more modern system would be much less intrusive, casting smaller shadows.

[RBRJ]

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/89...back_on_track/

Following on from Ken Livingston committing himself to reviving the Crystal Palace Tramlink extension in the race for the post of Mayor of London, to be held next year. Boris Johnson, the present incumbent, has also committed to the same.

[WatcherZero]

10 new trams delayed, theyve selected three prefered bidders but the timetable has slipped from Summer delivery Winter service to Winter delivery Spring service.

[stimarco]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

10 new trams delayed, theyve selected three prefered bidders but the timetable has slipped from Summer delivery Winter service to Winter delivery Spring service.

Aren't the Edinburgh trams also a possibility? Seems like a good deal: new (or as near as dammit) trams for Croydon, and TIE gets to release some capital. Though that capital will probably end up being spent on lawyers.

Croydon also gets to play the role of public beta testers for the new trams, so Edinburgh gets some very useful R&D data out of them for when their own line eventually opens. (Which I sincerely hope it does. It's not the technology's fault the management has been so inept.)

[WatcherZero]

Yes, and the Edinburgh Trams were originally to be tested and recieve certification on Croydon anyway. TIE is one of the prefered bidders though theirs a couple of issues, the Edinburgh Trams are longer than the Croydon ones so they wouldnt be capable of running double and traffic light timings may need to be adjusted. The other is their fitted for an Airport service so have next to no seats with large baggage storage racks and large standing areas for when in the centre of the City.

[stimarco]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Yes, and the Edinburgh Trams were originally to be tested and recieve certification on Croydon anyway. TIE is one of the prefered bidders though theirs a couple of issues, the Edinburgh Trams are longer than the Croydon ones so they wouldnt be capable of running double and traffic light timings may need to be adjusted. The other is their fitted for an Airport service so have next to no seats with large baggage storage racks and large standing areas for when in the centre of the City.

Actually, that sounds ideal for peak services, given the current loadings.

As for the length: I was under the impression these articulated designs were modular, so sections can be hoisted out of the unit and stored to keep the lengths within a suitable limit. (I distinctly recall reading that one of the options for increasing capacity was to insert more articulated sections into the original stock, but I may be confusing it with another line.)

[csk]

If we do get the Edinburgh trams then this is a taster of what they could look like, excuse the roughness, I just mocked this up quickly in a spare 10 mins on photoshop.

[Plaistow]

That looks great. (Incidentally a while back on another forum someone mocked up the DLR in the TfL style livery of white, blue skirt, and turquoise front and doors to match the DLR roundel).

[RBRJ]

http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/B...ail/story.html

Here we go again!

[WatcherZero]

Theres a rumour going round that Tfl will choose eastern european trams because Edinburgh isnt offering a long enough lease.

[R.K.Teck]

Edinburgh Trams are going to be built now - about 60% of the planned route from Edinburgh Airport will be built, so it will terminate in Edinburgh City Centre now.

I have no idea how this affects the Croyden Tram lease, but the news is breaking, they won't be scrapped anymore.

[bestbud]

Suggestion that Edinburgh trams weren't front runner for Croydon anyway, according to David Miller on the BBC.

[WatcherZero]

Originally Posted by R.K.Teck

Edinburgh Trams are going to be built now - about 60% of the planned route from Edinburgh Airport will be built, so it will terminate in Edinburgh City Centre now.

I have no idea how this affects the Croyden Tram lease, but the news is breaking, they won't be scrapped anymore.

They have been built already, 27 of them. However completion to the centre still only requires 17 so theres still 10 spare.

[Bottlefall]

I seriously pray it would be the Stadler Tango and not that PESA crap.

[Bottlefall]

The new trams will be six instead of ten.
Only two bidders left now: Standler and Edinburgh Council/CAF.
The new line will be 'LINE 4' (Elmer's End <-> Therapia Lane).

Still unsure which model Stadler have placed their bid with.Any info on that? Rumors maybe?

[WatcherZero]

Edinburgh councils minutes show that they expect to be the reserve bidder not the primary winner of the contract due to being unable to guarentee a long enough lease.

[Bottlefall]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Edinburgh councils minutes show that they expect to be the reserve bidder not the primary winner of the contract due to being unable to guarentee a long enough lease.

I'm not even sure those CAF trams can run on Tramlink tracks as is. They are too long which means that the first and the last doors won't fit at the tram stops!

[WatcherZero]

Will have to be sorted eventually anyway, like with the dual tracking of some parts they are going to have to make infrastructure changes whoever wins, and they also will order longer trams in the future for new routes.

[RBRJ]

I thought this tread was about London Trams! Somehow Edinburgh has got involved.

[Bottlefall]

Originally Posted by RBRJ

I thought this tread was about London Trams! Somehow Edinburgh has got involved.

Edinburgh got involved because London might buy some trams from them.