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Old December 22nd, 2008, 10:55 AM   #1
serdar samanlı
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MISC | HSR Length

Does anyone know which country has the largest high speed rail line network? I suppose it is France whose network is linked to British HSRL network via Channel Tunnel
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 12:22 PM   #2
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It depends on your qualification. Do you mean dedicated high speed track? Or just lines serviced by high speed trains? Do Pendolino's count?
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 12:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
It depends on your qualification. Do you mean dedicated high speed track? Or just lines serviced by high speed trains? Do Pendolino's count?
Dedicated HSRLs like French LGVs
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 10:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serdar samanlı View Post
Does anyone know which country has the largest high speed rail line network? I suppose it is France whose network is linked to British HSRL network via Channel Tunnel
Largest is Japan with some 2000 km. France has i think 1800km and Spain 1500km. In the future China will be the
country with by far the most km of HSR.
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 10:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serdar samanlı View Post
I suppose it is France whose network is linked to British HSRL network via Channel Tunnel
Britain's HSR network consists entirely of the link between London and the Channel Tunnel. Other than that, nothing goes over 200 km/h, so we're not adding much to France's fantastic system.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 12:24 AM   #6
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Acording to the EU the HSR starts at 200km/h for "classic" lines and at 250km/h for "new" lines ("new" means built after the Italians built their original "directissima").


Portugal = 350km of >200km/h in operation , 100km in various "upgrade" stages (read: under construction), 700km in various "planning" stages (read nearing construction and/or decided) and 400km more "planed" (but not in the near future(next 10 years))

The "core" network will be aproximately 2000km long ...


Spain = the plan calls for as much as 13.000km (?) of HSR in the next couple of years ... some 1500km of >250km/h new railways already in service ... some >200km/h classic lines upgraded (maiby 1000km?)

France = SNCF only uses HSL for their trunk railways (notice that from the CT-Paris-Lyon-Marseille alone there is already more than 1000km of continuous HSL)... so don't expect much more route expansions ... but how many "classic" lines are there >200km/h in france ???

UK = a large network of >200km/h routes ... 100km >250km/h

Italy = small trunk HSL network

Japan = how many km dos the shinkansen network have ???

...


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Old December 23rd, 2008, 11:00 AM   #7
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For the full scale shinkansen it's 2175.9Km that is in service right now.

The Break down is;
Tokaido Shinkansen 515.4Km Tokyo - Shin Osaka
Sanyo Shinkansen 553.7Km Shin Osaka - Hakata
Tohoku Shinkansen 593.1Km Tokyo - Yaheto
Joetsu Shinkansen 269.5Km Omiya - Nigata
Hokuriku Shinkansen 117.4Km Takasaki - Nagano
Kyushu Shinkansen 126.8Km Shin Yashiro - Kagoshima Chuo
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 01:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Italy = small trunk HSL network
781km in service right now (>250 km/h), 922km by 2009.
Far from being "small".
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
781km in service right now (>250 km/h), 922km by 2009.
Far from being "small".
But Eurostar Italias can use existing tracks can't they?
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 06:53 PM   #10
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Yes they can.
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Old December 24th, 2008, 06:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
781km in service right now (>250 km/h), 922km by 2009.
Far from being "small".
"We" are small ... Portugal ,nederlands , belgium , italy , taiwan ,korea , japan , etc

Spain + Russia + China have large mileages to cover ... we don't ... simple as that.

Maibly even Turkey , India , brasil , usa or any other of the big ones will surpass our HSL networks in the near future .
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Old December 24th, 2008, 12:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
Yes they can.
However they have to go slower
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Old December 24th, 2008, 01:42 PM   #13
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Spain


Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
That's old data, you find newer data in the 2008 network statement pdf.

High Speed Network (International Gauge) 1563km
Conventional Network (Conventional Gauge) 11,736km
Mixed Network (Conventional - International Gauge) 21km
Narrow Gauge Network (Metric Gauge) 18km

Single Electrified Track 3,601km
Non Electrified Single Track 5,210km
Double Electrified Track 4,450km
Non Double Electrified Track 56 (actually 67km as of now, all on the future Galician HSR axis)

Speed equal to or over 250 km/h 1247km
Speed between 200 km/h and 250 km/h 487km
Speed between 160 and 200 km/h 215km
Speed between 140 and 160 km/h 4,725km
Speed between 100 and 140 km/h 3,601km
Speed less than 100 km/h 3,063km
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...8#post28099578
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Old December 24th, 2008, 02:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
"We" are small ... Portugal ,nederlands , belgium , italy , taiwan ,korea , japan , etc
Yeah, you are right... Japan is so tiny.
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Old December 24th, 2008, 04:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
France = SNCF only uses HSL for their trunk railways (notice that from the CT-Paris-Lyon-Marseille alone there is already more than 1000km of continuous HSL)... so don't expect much more route expansions ... but how many "classic" lines are there >200km/h in france ???
Not much expansion ? A lot can still be done. Paris-Lyon-Marseille-Montpellier-Perpignan-Spain or Paris-Lyon-Marseille-Nice. Right now there is several projects in France :
- Tours-Bordeaux-Spannish border. Something like what 500km or 600km
- Bordeaux-Toulouse (~200km)
- Le Mans-Rennes (HSL ~180km) then Rennes-Quimper/Rennes-Brest with ~220km/h lines
- Poitiers-Limoges (~100km with maybe a single track service)
- Second Paris-Lyon (not in the near futur but the HSL 1 is already cramped with traffic so maybe ine the comming 30 years) -> Paris-Clermont Ferrand ( part with HSL and with >200km/h service
- Paris-Poitier-Calais (very hypothetical but perhaps)
- Rhin-Rhone LGV (a three branche star)
- the end of the HSL between Paris and Strasbourg (work will start soon ~100km)
- Toulouse-Narbonne (also very hypothetical, I will not count on this one)
- Lyon-Alps-Turin

I think it's evrything.
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Old December 26th, 2008, 07:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbman View Post
- Paris-Poitier-Calais (very hypothetical but perhaps)
I guess you meant Paris-Amiens-Calais? Because Paris-Poitiers-Calais would be indeed very hypothetical
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Old December 27th, 2008, 06:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbman View Post
Not much expansion ? A lot can still be done. Paris-Lyon-Marseille-Montpellier-Perpignan-Spain or Paris-Lyon-Marseille-Nice.(1100km lille-paris-lyon-marseille-nice + 100km CTRL-lille + 240 Nimes-Perpignan-spain)
Right now there is several projects in France :
- Tours-Bordeaux-Spannish border. Something like what 500km or 600km (more like 480km)
- Bordeaux-Toulouse (~200km)
- Le Mans-Rennes (HSL ~180km) (don't you mean 130km?) then Rennes-Quimper/Rennes-Brest with ~220km/h lines (do we count the 220km/h lines or not?)
- Poitiers-Limoges (~100km with maybe a single track service)
- Second Paris-Lyon (not in the near futur but the HSL 1 is already cramped with traffic so maybe ine the comming 30 years) -> Paris-Clermont Ferrand ( part with HSL and with >200km/h service
- Paris-Poitier-Calais (very hypothetical but perhaps) (do you mean a direct amiens-calais connection ???)
- Rhin-Rhone LGV (a three branche star)
- the end of the HSL between Paris and Strasbourg (work will start soon ~100km)
- Toulouse-Narbonne (also very hypothetical, I will not count on this one)
- Lyon-Alps-Turin

I think it's evrything.
Spain is making doubles of existing railways in UIC gauge ... china has plans for thousands of km of HSL ... france has a great HSL network ... but nonetheless has no plans for a network longer than 10.000km like those two named above.

For france I count:

Existing (uncluding U/C at full lenght and some other planned routes):
Calais-Lille-Paris Paris-Lyon-Nimes-Marseille-Nice = 1200km
Nimes-Perpignan-"spain" = 240km
Lyon-Torino = 200km
Paris-"Germany"(LGVEst) = 420km
Paris-LeMans-Rennes = 240km
(Paris)-Tours-bordeus-"Spain" = 600km (from the deviation to LeMans)

Add as much mileage and extra lines as you want ... but the french HSR network "tops" at 3000km or less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
Yeah, you are right... Japan is so tiny.
In the scale that we are talking about ... yeah ... it's a tiny place.

Spain HSL network (just a quick counting) is going to reach much more than 4000km (most of that is already built or currently U/C with more planned) ... and china ... let' ssee if they can pull those more than 10.000km that they talk about.
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Old December 27th, 2008, 08:53 AM   #18
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I really hate this who has the biggestXX pissing contest but before criticizing something is small and/or tiny why don't you post how much is in service at this moment for comparison like I did shall we?

For the record there are some more lines in planning and construction stage in Japan as well but didn't bother posting since I thought it is irrelevent until they go into service.
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Old December 27th, 2008, 11:30 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
In the scale that we are talking about ... yeah ... it's a tiny place.

Spain HSL network (just a quick counting) is going to reach much more than 4000km (most of that is already built or currently U/C with more planned) ... and china ... let' ssee if they can pull those more than 10.000km that they talk about.
Yeah by 2040 (maybe), when Japan will have MagLev trains operating and some thousand kms of new conventional lines too.

We are talking about existing networks now. Japan has 2,200 kms today, more than any other country. Italy has 800 kms and will have almost 1,000 by next year. Those are two of the four largest HS networks in the world. You put it along with Belgium and Portugal. I think there's nothing more to say.

Last edited by Federicoft; December 27th, 2008 at 02:31 PM.
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Old December 27th, 2008, 01:38 PM   #20
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This thread is derailing, Serdar asked for the largest current network. Now Tri-ring has posted a number for Japan (2175.9km), since no one can come up with any network that is longer TODAY! the question is answerd.

Sotavento why don't you just start you own thread, "Future and fantasy HSR networks"
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