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Old December 28th, 2008, 01:32 PM   #21
antovador
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
Yeah by 2040 (maybe), when Japan will have MagLev trains operating and some thousand kms of new conventional lines too.

We are talking about existing networks now. Japan has 2,200 kms today, more than any other country. Italy has 800 kms and will have almost 1,000 by next year. Those are two of the four largest HS networks in the world. You put it along with Belgium and Portugal. I think there's nothing more to say.
by existing network now, Italy is far behind France, Spain and Germany in Europe alone. For future wait and see. Agree, Japan for now has the most kilometres HSL network but Japan is physically a small country like some europeans countries but more in geologic unstable zone.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by gincan View Post
This thread is derailing, Serdar asked for the largest current network. Now Tri-ring has posted a number for Japan (2175.9km), since no one can come up with any network that is longer TODAY! the question is answerd.

Sotavento why don't you just start you own thread, "Future and fantasy HSR networks"
chinese and spanish HSL projects are not fantasies.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antovador View Post
chinese and spanish HSL projects are not fantasies.
Yes, the Chinese projects are not fantasies ...but spanish...4.000 km of HSRL? But how big is Spain? In Spain you calls "AVE" all new railways that are building. Please...
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Old December 28th, 2008, 04:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antovador View Post
by existing network now, Italy is far behind France, Spain and Germany in Europe alone. For future wait and see. Agree, Japan for now has the most kilometres HSL network but Japan is physically a small country like some europeans countries but more in geologic unstable zone.
Italy has nearly 1000 km of HSRL (by next year more than 1000 km) ... a little less than Spain, and you must consider that Italy is much smaller than Spain, in fact in Italy with 1000 km of HSRL link all major and most important cities of the country (Turin, Milan, Bologna, Florence, Rome, Naples), we don't need 3.000/4.000 km of lines.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 09:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antovador View Post
chinese and spanish HSL projects are not fantasies.
I never wrote anything about Spanish or Chinese HSR projects, please read again correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napo View Post
Yes, the Chinese projects are not fantasies ...but spanish...4.000 km of HSRL? But how big is Spain? In Spain you calls "AVE" all new railways that are building. Please...
First, AVE is a Renfe brand and has nothing to do with the HSR projects.

Second, the Spanish HSR projects are not fantasies since they are funded continuously, and have so been for the last decade.

Last edited by gincan; December 28th, 2008 at 09:09 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 10:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antovador View Post
by existing network now, Italy is far behind France, Spain and Germany in Europe alone.
I'm not interested in dick measuring contexts but... Germany has 837 km, hardly *far ahead*.
France and Spain are two of those four countries. The other one is Japan.

Ok it's not four, it's five. Is that relevant?
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Old December 29th, 2008, 01:46 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Napo View Post
Yes, the Chinese projects are not fantasies ...but spanish...4.000 km of HSRL? But how big is Spain? In Spain you calls "AVE" all new railways that are building. Please...
I guess you don't know what you are talking about. Once Valencia/Albacete is opened in 2010 Spain will be over 2000km of HSRL and there will be quite a lot of investments until 2020.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 04:53 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
I guess you don't know what you are talking about. Once Valencia/Albacete is opened in 2010 Spain will be over 2000km of HSRL and there will be quite a lot of investments until 2020.
Since the end of the Olympics, almost every week, China starts a new HSRL line construction...

300+ km/h HSRL in operation:
* Beijing-Tianjin, 116 km

300+ km/h HSRL in construction:
* Since 2005 June 23, Wuhan-Guangzhou, 968 km
* Since 2005 September 25, Zhengzhou-Xi'an, 457 km
* Since 2007 August 23, Harbin-Dalian, 904 km
* Since 2008 April 18, Beijing-Shanghai, 1318 km
* Since 2008 August 20, Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong, 142 km
* Since 2008 October 7, Beijing-Shijiazhuang, 281 km
* Since 2008 October 15, Shijiazhuang-Wuhan, 841 km
* Since 2008 November 8, Tianjin-Qinhuangdao, 261 km
* Since 2008 December 27, Nanjing-Hangzhou, 249 km

Over 5500 km of HSRL in China before 2013.

Last edited by test0012; December 29th, 2008 at 06:13 AM.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 05:06 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Napo View Post
Yes, the Chinese projects are not fantasies ...but spanish...4.000 km of HSRL? But how big is Spain? In Spain you calls "AVE" all new railways that are building. Please...


Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post

First, AVE is a Renfe brand and has nothing to do with the HSR projects.

Second, the Spanish HSR projects are not fantasies since they are funded continuously, and have so been for the last decade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
I guess you don't know what you are talking about. Once Valencia/Albacete is opened in 2010 Spain will be over 2000km of HSRL (<= FACT, not FANTASY )and there will be quite a lot of investments until 2020.(<= FACT, not FANTASY )
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Old December 29th, 2008, 06:48 AM   #30
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Wow, that's crazy, high speed trains have completely taken over europe and japan, do you guys have any locomotive driven passenger trains left at all? If so I'm still sure passenger locomotives will soon become obsolete.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 10:52 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antovador View Post
by existing network now, Italy is far behind France, Spain and Germany in Europe alone. For future wait and see. Agree, Japan for now has the most kilometres HSL network but Japan is physically a small country like some europeans countries but more in geologic unstable zone.
To keep thing in persepective here is a list of nations and size in km²;

Spain 504,782km²
France 675,417km²
Japan  377,835km²
Italy 301,230km²
Germany 357,021km²
GB 244,820km²
PRC  9,596,960km²
USA  9,372,615km²
Russia 17,075,200km²
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Old December 30th, 2008, 03:21 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Wow, that's crazy, high speed trains have completely taken over europe and japan, do you guys have any locomotive driven passenger trains left at all? If so I'm still sure passenger locomotives will soon become obsolete.
WHy would they have locomotive driven trains? That is old technology that relies on burning fossil fuels.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 04:33 AM   #33
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I think he was joking. I'm 23 and I don't remember when we had locomotive driven trains in Spain.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 06:42 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_Woowei View Post
I think he was joking. I'm 23 and I don't remember when we had locomotive driven trains in Spain.
The Talgo train is driven by locomotives... No I wasn't kidding, most countries still use locomotives, even diesel ones. I think there are at least some parts of Europe that still use them if I'm not mistaken, like all the places where there are not HSR lines. I'm just saying I think that locomotives will be obsolete within the next few decades, maybe worldwide.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 07:32 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
The Talgo train is driven by locomotives... No I wasn't kidding, most countries still use locomotives, even diesel ones. I think there are at least some parts of Europe that still use them if I'm not mistaken, like all the places where there are not HSR lines. I'm just saying I think that locomotives will be obsolete within the next few decades, maybe worldwide.
There are still some steam locomotives running in Japan but strictly for tourism.
I rode one and the experience was very much satisfying
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Old December 30th, 2008, 11:49 AM   #36
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He just said "locomotives", not "steam locomotives".
Yes, locomotives are extremely common in Europe outside of HS networks. Don't know about Japan, although I think EMU trains are more common over there.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 01:17 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
He just said "locomotives", not "steam locomotives".
Yes, locomotives are extremely common in Europe outside of HS networks. Don't know about Japan, although I think EMU trains are more common over there.
EMUs are also common in Britain. For example I have never seen a loco-hauled train on the railway bridges over River Thames in London
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Old December 30th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #38
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Train locomotives actually used in Spain

Diesel locomotives

# Euro 4000 (2009 -)
# Renfe Serie 334 (2004-)
# Renfe Serie 333 (1974-1976)
# Renfe Serie 354 (Talgo, 1983-1984)
# Renfe Serie 319

Electric Locomotives

# Renfe Serie 253 (2008- )
# Renfe Serie 252 (1991-1996)
# Renfe Serie 250 (1982-1986)
# Renfe Serie 251 (1982-1984)
# Renfe Serie 289 (1969-1972, ex 8900)
# Renfe Serie 269 (1973-1985)
# Renfe Serie 279 (1967, ex 7900)

Last edited by arriaca; December 30th, 2008 at 03:32 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Add as much mileage and extra lines as you want ... but the french HSR network "tops" at 3000km or less.
It can easily doubles from what is already existing, maybe a bit more. But that's all. After that it will be stupid to build more, not necessary and really expensive for allmost nothing. As a matter of fact there will be no need for more expansions.

There is still a lot room for expansions. For the moment the French HSR only concentrate on a few important lines and some of them are still unfinished.

My point was just to show you that you were wrong about the limited possibilities. Nothing more. Doubling the allready existing is not really what I will call limited. France is just half way down to... nothing.


As for EMUs :
The EMUs are more and more common these days all over Europe but locomotives will remain usefull and very common. I don't think we will see so soon Fret EMUs (except maybe post haulage like the French La Poste TGVs).
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Old December 31st, 2008, 02:44 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by serdar samanlı View Post
EMUs are also common in Britain. For example I have never seen a loco-hauled train on the railway bridges over River Thames in London

Do they not still use high speed diesel's like these?

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