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View Poll Results: For or against prejudice and discrimination?
Yes - Ireland is a modern country against bigotry 91 76.47%
No - I like judging people and think hate is good 28 23.53%
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:15 PM   #21
festivephone
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Northern Ireland is the Texas of Ireland
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:26 PM   #22
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More like Saudi Arabia. The intolerance is shocking.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:57 PM   #23
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More like Saudi Arabia. The intolerance is shocking.
I know that intolerance is wrong, hatred is wrong etc etc however how does the secular 'religion' which a lot of people worship, deal with countries that treat its citizens like dirt. How can your secular religion say that its wrong, when evolution a strand of your religion teaches about 'survival of the fittest'. Therefore each should look out for oneself. If a group of homo-sapiens somewhere else in the world do something different from you what right have you to say 'oh stop murdering your children and eating them its wrong!!!!
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:17 PM   #24
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I would hope no one is treated like dirt, regardless of how whacky their views are.

I do not worship secularism, I just like to keep an open mind and be receptive to new and challenging ideas. As someone (not sure who) once said, "When the facts change, I change my mind")

Human altruism? Its all in our genes ("The Selfish Gene, Richard Dawkins")
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordisk celt83 View Post
I think everyone is agreed that the question is exceptionally flawed, but I think one should discern a yes/no response rather than taking the ridiculous questioning at face value.

Interesting to note that if it had been an exclusively Republic of Ireland vote Yes would have it at 100% and no would be 0%.

Lostboy, it appears you're preaching to the liberally converted and need to do some work closer to home!
Why do you only care about tolerance South of the Border?
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:35 PM   #26
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PB-1888

I am not talking to you directly, however there are a large number out there in the world who preach and worship 'secularism'.

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I just like to keep an open mind and be receptive to new and challenging ideas. As someone (not sure who) once said, "When the facts change, I change my mind")
Dangerous game!!!!! especially be wary of what a fact is as quite often its fiction

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I would hope no one is treated like dirt, regardless of how whacky their views are.
You paint a hopeful picture, I know they teach you not to believe what you read all the time but I kind of think that there are a lot of folk out there treated like dirt, in this country in every country.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 05:11 PM   #27
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I'll make my own judgement on what is fact from the evidence available. In the spectrum from novel idea to received wisdom, evolution is right at the latter. Along with other concepts such as the world being round.

"I know they teach you not to believe what you read all the time"

I'm not sure who 'they' you refer to are.

"there are a lot of folk out there treated like dirt"

Yes of course. There are plenty of atheists, secularists, humanists whatever you want to call them who think the world would be a better place without religion. I disagree. I think it provides a necessary means of societal control (in moderation) for the irrational and solace for those unable to appreciate the beauty in the makeup of the world around them.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 05:35 PM   #28
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evolution is right at the latter
What I have to say about evolution is that man has only ever been in one form, ie he has not evolved from any lower life form.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 05:44 PM   #29
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Put on the Earth 5000 years ago?
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 05:47 PM   #30
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I'm not trying to be flippant by the way. I'm just interested.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 08:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 937delta View Post
What I have to say about evolution is that man has only ever been in one form, ie he has not evolved from any lower life form.
Oh. wow. How can you not be flippant about that?

Re, secularism... is it not important that a state remains impartial to all religions so that one group or another of its citizens does not become marginalised?
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:01 PM   #32
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Put on the Earth 5000 years ago?
I think its around 6000 years
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:03 PM   #33
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...of course...
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:11 PM   #34
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I think its around 6000 years
So whats your position on carbon-14 dating?
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:43 PM   #35
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Thats a deep subject old chap. Like any argument there are 2 sides. I am from the position that carbon dating is accurate only when you actually know how old something is. ie count the rings of the tree and then carbon date it, if the formula produces the same year as the rings then its accurate (if not make it). Its a bit like before carbon dating was around scientists dated fossils by the age of the rock, when a student asked how they dated the rocks, they were told by age of the fossils contained within them. Carbon dating can only be accurate by determining what the carbon ratio between 12/14 or something was when the organic matter was alive-which if thousands of years ago is impossible. Oh the nutty professors will say we gather this information from something else that was alive at the same time, which brings in 2 points 1. how do you know this is the same age, and 2. how did you date this item. I think we are back to the rock and fossil nonsense. round and round and round. The atmosphere could have been totally different throughout time with volcano's and stuff not taken into the carbon equation.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:53 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 937delta View Post
I am from the position that carbon dating is accurate only when you actually know how old something is
What a useful tool that would be.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 10:22 PM   #37
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Carbon dating may require assumptions about the amount of atmospheric C-14 at a given time. It doesn't take away from the fact that C-14 decays to N-14 via beta decay, that this is measureable and has a half life calculated at over 5000 years.

The actual date arrived at (for the fossil) may be debateable due to assumptions of atmospheric C-14 levels, what isn't however is that the fossil record is much older than you suggest. For what its worth U-235 has a decay constant of hundreds of millions of years and used for dinosaurs.

Last edited by PB-1888; January 2nd, 2009 at 11:15 PM.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 10:50 AM   #38
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For what its worth U-235 has a decay constant of hundreds of millions of years and used for dinosaurs.
You see by the secular science lobby (SSL) suggesting that 'dinosaurs' (animals that may be extinct) are millions of years old, without any evidence, this sets their equations. So by finding a fossil in the early days of carbon dating and saying lets prove this is 100,000,000 years old, they work the equation to suit. Also apparently you need to test against a sample that is alive today and compare - hmmmmm!!!!!!! . Carbon half life cycle is 5700years not far off the age of life on earth.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 02:23 PM   #39
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Delta, this is rubbish.

Half lives of unstable radioisotopes are not calculated on the prior assumption of how old a particular fossil is, and using that as some sort of standard.

The Scientific Method anyway involves trying to disprove a hypothesis. No one starts out saying "lets prove this is 100 000 years old" as you suggest. Quite the opposite. Hypotheses are quite literally tested to destruction before they are established as fact.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 03:50 PM   #40
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No one starts out saying "lets prove this is 100 000 years old" as you suggest
Before carbon dating became a 'proven method' (accepted by a group of scientist) they would have to prove that it works on something they know is a certain age. Maybe a body buried in a grave yard giving dates as to when the person died could be tested. If the equation doesn't work they adjust until they get it right. Next they test it on other fossils where they know the dates in a similar fashion (and lets face it they can only prove it works in recent history say under 4000 years ago at a guess). Once they get it working they 'assume' that it then applies to all material they want to date. However they don't know what atmospheric conditions were around during the time that each organism was alive. Therefore it is inaccurate.
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