Time for Ireland to accept gay marriages

[PB-1888]

Do you not think its ironic that this guy who professes Christian love is a fan of Street Fighter 4? I'm I missing something? He's just stirring.

[belfastuniguy]

Originally Posted by PB-1888

Do you not think its ironic that this guy who professes Christian love is a fan of Street Fighter 4? I'm I missing something? He's just stirring.

He has no notion of Christian love or values. I feel very sorry for him really..

[Johnny Blade]

Seriously some of those ignorant hate mongering people/homophobes are in fact gay themselves, this is irony so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Originally Posted by Viking74

Whenever gay issues are mentioned, a select bunch of ignorant hate mongering loathsome people seem come out of the woodwork. Same happens each time. Since when was homosexuality a 'mental illness'? Go get yourself some education. Sounds like you are badly in need of some.

[Tony Sebo]

best 'lostboy' poll construction ever!

[belfastuniguy]

Originally Posted by Johnny Blade

Seriously some of those ignorant hate mongering people/homophobes are in fact gay themselves, this is irony so thick you can cut it with a knife.

I agree with that. Which makes me pity them even more.

[Tony Sebo]

Originally Posted by belfastuniguy

As for hating society.

Gay people have been at the forefront of campaiging for greater civil liberties and rights for all minorities. On average a much higher percentage of gay people work and contribute to society financially. They have been the reason for economic development in some parts of cities such as Manchester, San Francisco and others. Relationship stability is stronger in gay couples than heterosexual couples with a lower percentage of divorce or civil partnership breakdown.

Gay people also provide stable homes for children and unlike some heterosexuals abuse their natural position to have children, with some mothers treating their wombs as a playpen for random men. Resulting in poorly cared for children either being aborted, put into care or neglected to then become deviants and the cause of juvenile crime.

If you want to address those that are leading to 'breakdown' in society maybe you should take you ignorant mindset out of your Westboro Baptist Monthly and take a look around you. Clearly you do not deserve to live in a free, open and tolerate society. You probably live in America, so you uneducated and ignorant mindset may have an explanation...

Wow, all of them?

The sentiment is OK but the sweeping generalisation is.... wow!

[Catmalojin]

Civil Partnership Bill to be debated
Thursday, 3 December 2009 10:44

The Civil Partnership Bill is due to be debated in the Dáil today with a number of groups calling for amendments over what they say are shortcomings in the Bill.

Watch the Dáil debate from 6.45pm

The National Lesbian and Gay Federation has rejected the Bill and is calling for the immediate introduction of a civil marriage option.

The Union of Students in Ireland says the proposed Bill will offer a number of legal rights to lesbian and gay couples but falls short of offering many of the rights and protections covered by civil marriage.

The USI says the Bill 'refuses to recognise the existence of same sex families, leaving children of same sex couples vulnerable and unprotected under Irish law'.

USI Lesbian Gay Bi-sexual Transgender Rights Officer, Laura Finlay, said: 'The implementation of this Civil Partnership Bill will only serve to enshrine in law the second class citizenship of LGBT people in this country.

'It is wholly unfair and sends out the message that gay people in Ireland are not equal to their heterosexual counterparts.'

In the recent NLGF report, Burning Issues, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people named equal marriage rights as their number one priority.

Ailbhe Smyth, NLGF Chairperson, said, 'Burning Issues proved definitively that there is no appetite among the LGBT community for civil partnership. They recognise that not only will the bill deny them full rights, it will discriminate against them even further.'

She said, 'Civil partnership will fuel such anti-gay sentiments by signalling: 'Yes, you are different'. The Government must admit that provision of Civil Partnership as the only relationship recognition option for LGBT people is a serious mistake.'

Meanwhile, MarriagEquality has issued a letter to Taoiseach Brian Cowen urging him to intervene so that the proposed Civil Partnership legislation be upgraded to legislation that would give equal civil marriage rights to same-sex couples.

MarriagEquality argues that civil partnership as the only option for same-sex couples promotes inequality.

LGBT Noise is organising a 'flash demo' today, which will take place outside Dáil Éireann at 6pm to coincide with the Dáil debate.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1203/civilpartnership.html

I, like most people (according to polls), would prefer full same sex civil marriage (or else restricting heterosexual couples to just civil partnerships in the eyes of the law, leave "marriage" a religious thing). Civil partnerships will just create a two-tier system.

[saoró...]

I agree completely, people, regardless of gender should be legally "married" in a civil partnership, leave religion to the religious.

Its fairly archaic, the concept that the church should have any connection to the state.

[Viking74]

I'm just waiting for the Church and the usual vile individuals to start spouting on about this again, and going on about how the 'institution' of marriage is to be protected blah ,blah, fucking blah, and given everything that's happened in this country in recent times, it will make me sick to the pit of my stomach. This legislation is well over due. In fact, as far as i remember, this was to be brought in several months (if not over a year?) ago. At least it will be a step in the right direction.

[nordisk celt83]

It is a step in the right direction, but I can appreciate the anger about it too. It really does create a two-tier system, but I think with FF in power it's the most campaigners are going to get.
The issue will be visited again in a few years time after the UK introduces same-sex marriage!

[B-Patriot]

Why should Ireland follow the British model, or always have to wait for them..

Hopefully we can get it over with soon..

[belfastuniguy]

Originally Posted by 937delta

I think its around 6000 years

LOL

You're such a fucking moron Delta, it would be absolutely hilarious if all the shit you type here wasn't what you actually believed it. Hence I pity you and incredibly backward mind.

[plank007]

[niterider]

sorry to re-open a stagnant thread but any news or progress on this topic?

[nordisk celt83]

^ Can't say I've heard much about it in the press. The civil partnership bill was presented to the Dail earlier in the month, but has been taking a back-burner to other issues.
Quite a few things holding this up, not least a couple of cabinet members who are opposed to any such legislation altogether (including the minister heading the bill.) Then, there's also calls by many that it doesn't go far enough, and that the whole thing needs to be reviewed to cater for full marriage rights (as is supported by a large majority of the population.)
I know the greens have included it as a stickler in their programme for government, but many of the opposition parties want it go further.

[Catmalojin]

Dáil debates Civil Partnership Bill
Thursday, 21 January 2010 16:08

Second Stage debate has resumed on the Civil Partnership Bill in the Dáil.

The Bill aims to provide a statutory registration scheme for same-sex couples together with a range of new rights and protections.

Fianna Fáil TD Michael Fitzpatrick told the Dáil that certain distinctions will however remain between married heterosexual couples and couples in civil partnerships.

He said there will be no provision in the Bill for the adoption of children by couples in a civil partnership, for example.

He said there are other, less publicised, elements to the legislation.

In particular, certain financial provisions for co-habiting couples, whether same-sex or heterosexual, who have no legal standing in Irish law and who have no legal protection in the event of a relationship break-up.

He said the Bill will provide for a financially dependent co-habitant to apply to court for maintenance or for a property or pension adjustment order, in the event of the relationship ending, whether by break-up or death.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0121/marriage.html

Dáil debates civil unions Bill

MICHAEL O'REGAN and MARIE O'HALLORAN

Thu, Jan 21, 2010

The Dáil was short of a majority to put a proposal for gay marriage to the people in a constitutional referendum, Labour TD Ciaran Lynch told the House today.

Mr Lynch said that the gay community’s aspiration was for full legal equality with their heterosexual peers, as it should be.

He added: “That is the policy of the Labour party, as stated in this House, and affirmed by our own party conference.

“However, the best is often the enemy of the good. The introduction of full civil marriage for lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans-gender people would require a constitutional referendum.

“This is the advice of the Attorney General and our own legal advice. At present, there is far from a majority of this House in favour of putting this issue to the people let alone surety that such a referendum would be carried.’’

Mr Lynch was speaking during the resumed second stage Dáil debate on the Civil Partnership Bill 2009.

He said that he could see the merit of the legislation for those members of the gay community who could not wait for the time when circumstances changed.

The Bill, he added, would provide for the rights of a survivor of a relationship to inherit the home they had lived all their lives.

“It will allow them to benefit on the same terms as their peers from their partner’s hard work by giving them access to pension entitlements,’’ said Mr Lynch.

“All of those are measures to be welcomed.’’

© 2010 irishtimes.com

I'd imagine Labour would want a constitutional referendum on the issue as part of any Programme for Government, so this is to be welcomed. I remember reading on the Fine Gael (who also seek a few referenda, such as abolishing the Seanad, judges' pay, etc. - they could have multiple issues to vote on like in 2001) site that they felt the bill doesn't go far enough, particularly in protecting the children of homosexual couples, so this is also to be welcomed.

The only people this bill really satisfies seems to be Fianna Fáil (which also have their fair share of naysayers against recognition altogether), it's widely known that even the Greens are disillusioned with it...

[niterider]

Anyone have an idea or stats on what result a referendum on gay marriage/civil partnerships would likely produce?

[Catmalojin]

Originally Posted by niterider

Anyone have an idea or stats on what result a referendum on gay marriage/civil partnerships would likely produce?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recogni...#Public_debate

A survey carried out in 2008 showed that 84% of Irish people supported civil marriage or civil partnerships for gay and lesbian couples, with 58% (up from 51%) supporting full marriage rights in registry offices. The number who believe homosexuals should only be allowed to have civil partnerships fell in the same period, from 33% to 26%. A later Irish Times online poll, put support for same-sex marriage at 63%, up a further 5%. A survey commissioned by MarriagEquality in February 2009 indicated that 62% of Irish people supported same-sex marriage and would vote in favour of it if a referendum were held.

[Catmalojin]

I noticed this on Politics.ie:

The National Youth Committee of Ógra Fianna Fáil yesterday officially endorsed the new "Equality for Same Sex Couples and their Families" policy document. This policy document was formulated following the the unanimous decision of the Ógra Fianna Fáil National Youth Conference last Novemeber to vote in favour of Marriage Equality.

The document can be found at Marriage Equality Proposal.

Some of its key recomendations include:

Civil Marriage Equality for all
Adoption Rights for Same Sex Couples
Legal Recognition for children in Same Sex Marriages

I fully support this proposal document (I recommend you read it), but I have to admit I'm surprised Ógra Fianna Fáil are the ones behind it.

It's great to see the youth wing of the party standing up to the likes of Dermot Ahern though! Hopefully, this new generation of FFers won't be like the current crowd and actually stand for progress.

It also means that now every party in the Dáil (or their youth wing, in the case of FF) feels that the current Civil Partnership Bill doesn't go far enough!

It's only a matter of time before we can claim to have real equality.

[nordisk celt83]

It's a pity the civil partnership bill doesn't go far enough to meet the views of the majority of Irish people. I kind of viewed it as a stepping stone previously, but the more one thinks about it the bill essentially classes a large section of our brothers/sisters, mothers/fathers and friends/relatives as second class citizens, which isn't acceptable in modern Ireland.

As far as I know full-marriage equality was part of the Green Party programme for government, but it's obviously taken a back seat. A vociferous minority of middle-aged-elderly, more likely to vote Fianna Fail boggers continue to hold the country to ransom on a multitude of issues. If only urban voters were more vocal!

Nice to see 100% of Republic of Ireland forumers have voted Yes!!!