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Old June 19th, 2010, 06:07 PM   #281
Tin_Can
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It would be nice if you manage to do that

And Triceratops - road in Northern Pärnu existed before (I think it was called Ehitajate Tee or smth like that),while new parts are in both Western (whole new road,connecting existing Pärnu-Lihula highway to Via Baltica) & Eastern Pärnu (new interchanges and afaik,they did smth with existing bridge there too).
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Old July 18th, 2010, 11:09 PM   #282
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Some signage on roads 3 & 1

Snapped a few pictures today, hope you enjoy.

[IMG]http://i25.************/2edp7c6.jpg[/IMG]

Usual stack-type advance direction sign.

[IMG]http://i32.************/1jq4ol.jpg[/IMG]

Confirmation sign for road 3. Narva is further along the 1 / E20, hence the double... erm, quadruple numbering.

[IMG]http://i27.************/1on89j.jpg[/IMG]

Diagram-type direction sign.

[IMG]http://i32.************/33yjgjr.jpg[/IMG]

Standard stack-type advance direction sign. Almost all the national roads are now signposted like this.

Seems the standard practice now is to display local road numbers as well. The signs look good, but I have a haunting suspicion that very few, if any motorists know what to actually make of these local road numbers. I, for one, don't :-P

[IMG]http://i30.************/2ekrlsk.jpg[/IMG]

Some signage around Jõhvi.

[IMG]http://i25.************/j6ifeq.jpg[/IMG]

Wow, that's something new for me. A road so pointless it doesn't even have any destinations to signpost! :-)

(The 1 / E20 runs close to the coast here; all roads to the right are quite short and there was one every couple of hundred metres. The road engineers probably didn't feel like repeating the same village name over and over.)

[IMG]http://i32.************/9suu6b.jpg[/IMG]

Direction sign on road 1, incorporating tourist destinations.

[IMG]http://i28.************/6s5t88.jpg[/IMG]

This style (Century Gothic-ish typeface and very skimpily padded layouts) can be seen quite a lot around Lääne-Viru county. It was probably the official local design, before the county road administration adopted national standards.

However - "300 m" seems to be written again in standard Arial, not the local typeface. Weird.

Oh, and 164 should have a white background instead of yellow, it's a local road.

[IMG]http://i25.************/2gy7l0h.jpg[/IMG]

Name of the maintenance company for this stretch of road, and phone number for information.

[IMG]http://i27.************/10ncgg8.jpg[/IMG]

Signage on road 1.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 11:54 PM   #283
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I really dislike that Estonian signage uses capital letters to sign destinations, it makes them so much more difficult to read at speed(not that I read road signs very often).
I also agree that putting road numbers for any other road than the main highways is pretty pointless. Nobody knows nor uses them. Even in the news it's always Tallinn-Tartu highway or Tallinn-Narva highway rather than highway number 2 or 1.

Also, I noticed that next to Saue on road 11 there is a distance sign for Kappelskär...it seems that Estonian Road Administration likes signing ferry destinations on the other side of the Baltic Sea(mind the "Stockholm 412" sign on the first page).

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; July 19th, 2010 at 12:01 AM.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 12:42 AM   #284
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The road looks quite nice. I find the signs to be fine too. I'm sure those who drive are aware of the road numbers. If not it's always a good idea to look at the map. It will take a few minutes to get familiar.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 09:16 AM   #285
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If anyone is interested to know every numbered highway in Estonia, they are here:
http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eesti_maanteede_loend (main highways and basic roads)and here:
http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eesti_k...aanteede_loend (local roads)
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Old July 19th, 2010, 09:54 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
I really dislike that Estonian signage uses capital letters to sign destinations, it makes them so much more difficult to read at speed(not that I read road signs very often).
From my personal experience - the main drawback is that multiple lines of text are harder to follow with eyes; especially if lines are closely together. I'd argue that three destinations on top of one another seems to be the practical limit of what I can comfortably read at speed.

On the other hand, mixed case signage requires a much more careful choice of typeface. With capital letters, readability is much harder to screw up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
I also agree that putting road numbers for any other road than the main highways is pretty pointless. Nobody knows nor uses them. Even in the news it's always Tallinn-Tartu highway or Tallinn-Narva highway rather than highway number 2 or 1.
I am not too exalted with the proliferation of new E-route numbers; I guess we would have been perfectly well without E263, E264 and E265. A lot of signage around Tallinn already looks like Christmas trees (with colourful number shields hanging off every diagram arrow :-), AND, E265 is still pretty much unmarked yet.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 10:35 AM   #287
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The usage of road signs in Estonia is pretty much regulated by this document: http://www.riigiteataja.ee/ert/ert.j...eta=1&id=81357 . 3.6.1 says that one distance sign can have a maximum of 4 destinations.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 12:08 AM   #288
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Here's another post about Estonian road signage. The pictures were taken on roads between Viljandi and Rapla; the signs have been installed at various times, illustrating quite nicely the different styles and typefaces that have been used on signs. So, here's a few observations.

Current design rules are codified in Estonian Standard EVS 613. The document, unfortunately, is not freely available, but we can assume with near certainty that the typeface specified for signs is Arial.

Here's an Arial sign amidst post-Soviet idyll.

[IMG]http://i28.************/2wf63hf.jpg[/IMG]

The standard has been in effect since 2001 and on trunk roads almost all of the signage is up to date already. It is on smaller roads where we can find more interesting stuff.

I am not aware of any standards predating EVS 613, but there surely must have been some kind of rules or guidelines before that, too. Here is a sign that, I think, pretty well characterises the old "look":

[IMG]http://i30.************/28i6xb5.jpg[/IMG]

This style was pretty consistently used all over Estonia. Note also that road number shields were originally not coloured.

I couldn't identify the typeface on the web. It might as well be that it hasn't been digitised and perhaps even doesn't have a name

Some more pictures, here already with coloured road numbers.

[IMG]http://i29.************/2md1cah.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i28.************/28rdun8.jpg[/IMG]

"3" and "5" are rather distinctive-looking digits in this typeface.

As I mentioned previously, Lääne-Viru county seemingly had their own design guidelines and a different typeface. Similarly, Rapla county also had their own designs for a while.

These signs are more spaciously designed and feature yet another font. It's not quite Arial and not quite the "old standard" type either (numbes 1 and 5 look quite different)

[IMG]http://i26.************/2gvmo3q.jpg[/IMG]

A good comparison - top sign is the Rapla county design, bottom ones are laid out in Arial. Compare the uppercase J-s in both signs.

[IMG]http://i32.************/50182o.jpg[/IMG]

Next post will be about Rapla-Tallinn, with a small detour.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #289
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A few more pictures, taken mostly between Rapla and Tallinn.

A warning about traffic accidents.

[IMG]http://i32.************/29m1wzm.jpg[/IMG]

Approaching Rapla from south. Detour instructions for lorries.

[IMG]http://i25.************/140bzpy.jpg[/IMG]

Roundabout in Rapla. Somewhat confusing for heavy vehicles, but those were supposed to take a detour around Rapla anyway. I like the design.

[IMG]http://i27.************/28223jl.jpg[/IMG]

Part of the 15 north of Rapla is being renovated. Start of the renovated stretch of road, a railway crossing ahead.

[IMG]http://i32.************/35lcmy9.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i31.************/2eyh0fr.jpg[/IMG]

Sunset on the 15.

[IMG]http://i32.************/27yo3d1.jpg[/IMG]

15, passing Kohila. I will turn to 11202 to the right; sign indicates it is possible to get from here to Tallinn-Tartu road (2/E263), so let's try that.

[IMG]http://i31.************/2vbolch.jpg[/IMG]

On the 11202 now - it's a very small road, but nevertheless paved.

[IMG]http://i26.************/2lxdv2o.jpg[/IMG]

Simple signage.

[IMG]http://i25.************/296lzbr.jpg[/IMG]

Lots of squiggly arrows.

[IMG]http://i25.************/eg1ae.jpg[/IMG]

A mishmash of differently-sized boards - county border, municipality border and a tourist attraction. Usually, sign widths are made to match.

[IMG]http://i25.************/2hnqqoi.jpg[/IMG]

This road has old concrete kilometre markers, most of them repainted by hand.

[IMG]http://i31.************/2ldvvhv.jpg[/IMG]

Danger of falling into water, in the middle of forest?

[IMG]http://i27.************/1183d4g.jpg[/IMG]

OK, it's a river valley.

[IMG]http://i28.************/2cxu5fm.jpg[/IMG]

And back to civilisation again. This is a brand new interchange on 2 / E263, the recently-opened Vaida-Aruvalla 2x2 stretch. Diagram-type signs these days try to be very map-like.

[IMG]http://i32.************/2r7ox77.jpg[/IMG]

Overpass above 2 / E263.

[IMG]http://i25.************/21o79ub.jpg[/IMG]

And another view from the other side.

[IMG]http://i32.************/34qs6bq.jpg[/IMG]

On road 2 now, bound for Tallinn.
This sign is placed at an unusually early distance of 1.4 km from the next exit, since the wide signboard would not have fit anywhere else alongside the noise barrier.

[IMG]http://i28.************/nzlh15.jpg[/IMG]

Somebody has taken care that the route to Suuresta (pop. 54, distance: 2 km) be very correctly signed.

[IMG]http://i27.************/4qh8q1.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 28th, 2010, 01:02 AM   #290
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I like the signage in Estonia. Nothing too special, just simple and understandable. Considering that Estonia isn't the densest country with not the highest trafic volumes in the world I guess this looks good.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 01:24 AM   #291
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Coming from Belgium, I like it very much . Very clear and shiny with nice color shemes..

The diagram/map-layout shouldn't be overdone though, like the picture where the railway is also shown, that's just.. too much :p.

Btw, maybe I'll make a nice photoshoot of Via Baltica from Augustow (PL) to Tallinn (EE) next week, but that depends on how sleepy I am after 1800kms and how much I want to drive the stretch myself :P.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 01:43 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wover View Post
Coming from Belgium, I like it very much . Very clear and shiny with nice color shemes..

The diagram/map-layout shouldn't be overdone though, like the picture where the railway is also shown, that's just.. too much :p.

Btw, maybe I'll make a nice photoshoot of Via Baltica from Augustow (PL) to Tallinn (EE) next week, but that depends on how sleepy I am after 1800kms and how much I want to drive the stretch myself :P.
You better get it done
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Old July 28th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #293
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@Grisent - Good job! Highway Nr.15 looks really good after they made those roadworks in few years ago.


@Wover - Don't be lazy,we are looking forward to those photos
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Old July 28th, 2010, 09:42 PM   #294
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Tin_Can - thanks!

I agree that rural highway signage is quite clear and adheres nicely to design guidelines. It is a bit worse in Tallinn and I think that's exactly because of more information, higher road density and less space to use. That's probably the case for all larger towns, in any country.

Yet, there's a lot more pure sloppiness in Tallinn's signs as well.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 10:00 PM   #295
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I also like Estonian signage, pretty and simple design makes a very fine feeling while driving there! Especially the fact that there are a lots of signs showing curvy route although being located on a main state highway, that's quite uncommon, but still creates an interesting vision.
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Old July 29th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #296
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So - I've been doing some font research meanwhile. :-)

I was browsing the Lithuanian thread a couple of days ago, when I suddenly realised that the typeface I was rambling about - the one used on Estonian signs before Arial - is in fact the same that is currently used on Lithuanian signs. Or if not exactly the same, then very similar.

So I concluded that both Estonian old signs and Lithuanian signs must originate from the same specifications - presumably, Soviet ones. And I went scouring the 'Net for GOST standards. And - would you believe that! - there's a site where all GOST standards, including current ones, are freely downloadable. (It is not an official website, probably quite the opposite, but who cares.)

So here are two documents that you might be interested in.

ГОСТ 10807-78 - Road signs. General specifications
http://libt.ru/gost/download/gost-10807-78.html

And the '78 standard has been superseded by this one, ГОСТ Р 52290-2004:

http://libt.ru/gost/download/gost-r-52290-2004.html

Both standards have graph-paper blueprints for all traffic signs, and also the letters and numbers to be used on traffic signs. And this is exactly what I was looking for; and indeed, the letterforms seem to be exactly the old Estonian / current Lithuanian standard!

Well, not exactly, there are a few differences in tiny details, if I compare with my photos; but since the standard is defined by hand-drawn shapes on graph paper, this is as good as we might expect

You might want to take a look at both documents. The '78 specification contains all alphabets of the Soviet Union, including Armenian, Georgian alphabets, and of course letters Õ, Ä, Ö, Ü. On the other hand, the 2004 standard is interesting because it prescribes what arrow configurations are allowed for diagram-type signs.
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Old August 8th, 2010, 12:36 PM   #297
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A series of pictures from Tallinn bypass, road 11. This post will be in several parts; first part - Laagna road!

This is the total route I covered.



The journey begins with Laagna road - the main traffic artery of Lasnamäe, Tallinn's most populous town district. It was built in the 70's/80's, together with the district itself.

The road runs mostly recessed below street-level, carved into limestone, hence colloquially known as "the canal". 2x4 (or even 2x5) in the beginning, 2x2 in the end.

You can guess the majority demographic in this part of Tallinn...



All junctions are grade-separated, except at the very end. Pavement is really degraded - I hope it is already on Tallinn's to-do list.



Central median has been reserved for light rail/tramline. However, considering that 1) there isn't any good corridor for continuing the tramline into town centre and 2) that The Canal is already well served by bus lines, the plans have been already 30 years in discussion and will probably be for the next 30 years as well




Iru power plant ahead.



Built-up area ends here. Laagna road compacts down to 2 lanes and makes a sharp turn to connect with Peterburi road (1 / E20) and Tallinn bypass (11).




The current at-grade intersection is a temporary solution, though. It will - hopefully, eventually - be replaced with Väo interchange.




The beginning of road 11.

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Old August 8th, 2010, 11:19 PM   #298
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Continuing the journey along road 11, Tallinn bypass.

First, a quick look over the shoulder. A sign in the opposite direction, on the approach to 1 / E20:



Road 11. Some smaller signs...



...and larger signs. Along this journey, most exits to the right will obviously be pointing towards Tallinn



Railroad overpass.





Approaching the interchange with Tallinn-Tartu road (2 / E263).



Old gantries from Soviet times are "serious iron". New installations use very light lattice gantries, similar to those in Sweden.



Passing below road 2 / E263.




See the poles on the left -- remnants of a decommissioned road sign.





Next ahead, intersection with Tallinn-Rapla road (15). Roads 11 and 15 will merge for a short distance and then diverge again.



Approaching the intersection.



And again, feel free to exit for Tallinn



This is the joint section of 11 & 15. Next intersection can already be seen ahead.


Last edited by Grisent; August 9th, 2010 at 07:12 AM. Reason: replaced a double post
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Old August 8th, 2010, 11:30 PM   #299
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Journey on road 11 (Tallinn bypass) - part 2

Hm, I was submitting a post consisting of several parts. First of them is awaiting moderation, the second one was posted immediately. Go figure.

I will put the content of the second part back once the 1st part gets approved.

Last edited by Grisent; August 8th, 2010 at 11:33 PM. Reason: previous part of the same story not published yet
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Old August 9th, 2010, 12:19 AM   #300
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approved The forum software catches posts from new users with a lot of links or pictures as spam often, so it needs approval.

Nice pictures, but why are the roads so deserted?
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