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Old October 13th, 2010, 02:13 AM   #421
Grisent
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I guess I should clarify. If you look at the photo, the left-hand -- ie., "approaching" -- carriageway is the problematic one. Traffic coming across the viaduct needs to take a left turn.

Here is a rather sketchy rendering from the website of one of the contractors (EA Reng). It's the same location viewed from a directly opposite viewpoint, from across the viaduct. Check the signage:



I couldn't find any traffic scheme blueprints, unfortunately.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 03:08 AM   #422
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Quote:
I couldn't find any traffic scheme blueprints, unfortunately.
Here you go:
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Old October 13th, 2010, 11:10 AM   #423
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Ah it is actually just a slightly sophisticated diamond interchange that looks like a full freeway-to-freeway interchange if you approach it.

Why didn't they built a cloverleaf? It requires slightly more space, but not more viaducts.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #424
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/\ My thoughts exactly. Clover leaf would've been better than this.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 05:13 PM   #425
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Actually it does require more viaducts (or a wider one) if you want to make it properly so include collector roads or how they are called.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 12:56 AM   #426
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Thanks, Hasper. Where did you find that?

Of course it should have been a cloverleaf, being touted as "the most important interchange in Central Estonia" and all that.

Doing things cheap and easy again. But I also suspect that land use was an important motivator. Perhaps there are those who believe that spending a significant part of the budget to buy land is wasting money. But even if that is not the case, a smaller footprint makes the project much more acceptable for local people. (NIMBY at work, as always). There is also an environmental impact assessment and what not.

It's quite rare to see an Estonian road project where the ramps and access roads are simply laid out as they should, dammit, whatever land area it takes. Certainly, there's a lot of stuff that gets in the way -- built-up areas, waterbodies, bogs, nature reserves -- and collector/local roads need access points and so on. But nevertheless, often the planners seem to be hobbling themselves for no particular reason.

The other day I was scratching my head at the prospective northern bypass of Tartu. Project website is here, click "Trassi asukoha plaan" to open a 18 MB PDF map and traffic scheme. A nice and necessary project, but 4 roundabouts and a junction that requires a degree in sciences to navigate?!! And if you study it closely, these roundabouts are all on major directions, not just collector roads.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #427
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I thought I'd also share the map of traffic densities around Mäo interchange, just in case.

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Old October 14th, 2010, 06:50 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisent View Post
The other day I was scratching my head at the prospective northern bypass of Tartu. Project website is here, click "Trassi asukoha plaan" to open a 18 MB PDF map and traffic scheme. A nice and necessary project, but 4 roundabouts and a junction that requires a degree in sciences to navigate?!! And if you study it closely, these roundabouts are all on major directions, not just collector roads.
I'm pretty sure these roundabouts will handle the "massive" traffic density nicely . If you look closely, you can actually see that they are planning to build 2 turbo-roundabouts there which is pretty cool.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 03:54 AM   #429
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As you know, there are plans to rebuild the Tallinn ring road section from Vao to Juri into a 2+2 road. There are also plans to build 3 new interchanges: Kurna, Luige and Juuliku. Construction expected to start next year.

An updated info on the interchanges:

Kurna interchange project includes 4,4 km of new 2+2 road. That is T11 Tallinn ring road km 11,3 - 15,7.

Luige interchange -> 2,7 km of 2+2 -> T11 Tallinn ring road (km 17,4 - 20,1).
New T15 alignment (2,5km), on the other hand, will stay 1+1.

Juuliku interchange -> 3,3 km of 2+2 -> T11 Tallinn ring road km (24,8 - 28,1).
It also includes the construction of the first km of the new Juuliku-Tabasalu road. 1km - 2+2 and 2,5km - 1+1.

The Juri roundabout and the cloverleaf in Kanama will stay intact for the next 10-15 years.

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Thanks, Hasper. Where did you find that?
From this booklet:
http://www.mnt.ee/atp/failid/mao/nor..._100927_v2.pdf

Quote:
Of course it should have been a cloverleaf
The current solution can be improved with traffic lights.

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A nice and necessary project, but 4 roundabouts and a junction that requires a degree in sciences to navigate?!! And if you study it closely, these roundabouts are all on major directions, not just collector roads.
You don't like roundabouts? They are better than simple same level intersections as they help slow down traffic, improve safety, increase intersection capacity and are cheap.

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I thought I'd also share the map of traffic densities around Mäo interchange, just in case.
This map is "incorrect". The measurements were made during Mao bypass construction, when T5 was used as a detour.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 11:10 AM   #430
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Point taken about turbo-roundabouts, thanks. That's cool.

No, I am not opposed to roundabouts; they are a prefectly fine solution. And of course, in Tiksoja junction, they will handle the amounts of traffic fine. It was just that I was surprised they are building a grade-separated junction and for some directions there is a very smooth way through the junction; but others need to pass roundabouts.

But then again, the solution takes into account all local roads, gives them good access to all directions without unnecessarily long detours -- so maybe it's not too bad after all, then.

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Originally Posted by Hasper View Post
The current solution can be improved with traffic lights.
From one point-of-view I think it was the right decision to build T5 as a 2x2 road. If the viaduct would have been initially constructed with only 2 lanes, it would be very difficult and costly to widen the junction in the future.

At the same time, it clearly has created an unsatisfactory traffic solution.

Certainly, traffic lights might be an option. But for a rural 2x2 road, it's more like a desperate last-resort option for a mess caused in the first place.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 11:58 AM   #431
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Off topic: I looked at those turbo-roundabouts and while they seem to be fine if you are going right, straight or left, they don't seem to give you the opportunity to turn around without changing lanes, which is a serious minus point. Unless I am mistaken, of course.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 02:00 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
This road really looks like a real motorway.

So I can't understand why they don't have any motorway signs on it.
I actually though that is motorway somewhere in Poland on A2.. =)
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Old October 16th, 2010, 02:00 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
Off topic: I looked at those turbo-roundabouts and while they seem to be fine if you are going right, straight or left, they don't seem to give you the opportunity to turn around without changing lanes, which is a serious minus point. Unless I am mistaken, of course.
You are both right and wrong at the same time . You can turn around when it's lawfully possible but you can't turn around if you are coming from a slip road and it's pretty obvius why.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 02:38 PM   #434
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What do you mean coming from a slip road? There are two lanes entering the roundabout in each entry. You can choose whichever lane you want. And turning around is impossible without changing lanes, so you will still get people changing lanes, which kind of defeats the purpose.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 03:04 PM   #435
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I still don't see why you have to change lanes to turn around:
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Old October 16th, 2010, 03:22 PM   #436
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OK, you are probably right, you can turn around without changing lanes.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 12:30 AM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisent View Post
I guess I should clarify. If you look at the photo, the left-hand -- ie., "approaching" -- carriageway is the problematic one. Traffic coming across the viaduct needs to take a left turn.
I had another look, but still can't see anything that indicates that a left turn is permitted there. The only other thing I can think of, is that it could be a route for overheight vehicles(up the exit ramp, cross the motorway and down the entrance ramp on the far side). Without more pics of that particular junction, I can't say anything more with any accuracy...
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Old November 12th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #438
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Pictures of the Parnu bypass (E67) reconstruction from the Parnu Postimees newspaper:
1) Parnu - Lihula highway (2+2 section reconstruction) and the new 1+1 western bypass (connection between Tallinn-Parnu and Parnu-Lihula roads):





2) Tallinn - Parnu - Ikla road (Ehitajate tee and Papiniidu bridge):






3) New eastern 1+1 bypass (connection between Papiniidu bridge and Riga highway):



















What is the current status of the Liiapeksi-Loobu (E20) section reconstruction? I've been there in September and the construction was moving unbelievably slowly.

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But I'd leave that aside for a moment and fantasize a bit. What do you think, what would most likely be the first stretch of road in Estonia to get motorway status?
Tallinn-Kanama (Saue) section of the Tallinn - Parnu highway is fully lit, has a wide median. After Topi and Saue interchanges will be build, there won't be any at-grade crossings or U-turns. It is longer than 4km. A perfect candidate!
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Old November 13th, 2010, 06:25 PM   #439
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What is the current status of the Liiapeksi-Loobu (E20) section reconstruction? I've been there in September and the construction was moving unbelievably slowly.
I drove along E20 last weekend. Pavement works were almost completed. Looks like it should be ready in 2-3 weeks.

By the way, on Väo-Maardu construction site, traffic has already been diverted to the new carriageway. First impression is that it looks truly wide -- 3 lanes, after all Old carriageway was in the middle of being jackhammered.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 10:11 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by Hasper View Post

Tallinn-Kanama (Saue) section of the Tallinn - Parnu highway is fully lit, has a wide median. After Topi and Saue interchanges will be build, there won't be any at-grade crossings or U-turns. It is longer than 4km. A perfect candidate!
I disagree. I think that Vaida-Kose would be the best candidate after it has been finished in 2-3 years time.


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Originally Posted by Grisent View Post
I drove along E20 last weekend. Pavement works were almost completed. Looks like it should be ready in 2-3 weeks.

By the way, on Väo-Maardu construction site, traffic has already been diverted to the new carriageway. First impression is that it looks truly wide -- 3 lanes, after all Old carriageway was in the middle of being jackhammered.
According to this http://www.inspirit.ee/maantee/ , Liiapeksi - Loobu won't be finished until the end of July, 2011.

BTW, I had no idea that Viitna bypass is already being built. That means next autumn we will have 8.3km of brand new dual carriageway.

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; November 14th, 2010 at 10:18 AM.
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