daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 6th, 2011, 10:49 PM   #621
RipleyLV
Registered User
 
RipleyLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Jelgava
Posts: 4,635
Likes (Received): 2262

First class update!

Any news concerning Väo interchange rebuilding project?
RipleyLV no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 6th, 2011, 11:05 PM   #622
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,972
Likes (Received): 6909

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
No, you cannot. It is difficult to see the lines in this photo but if you take the inner lane you will eventually have to exit the roundabout.
Are you sure about that?

I think it really depends whether you are allowed to change lanes while on the roundabout. True, if you stick to the same lane you'll have to exit the roundabout eventually but if you can change lanes then you may go around as much as you wish.

In this case for example you cannot go around indefinitely


Picture source: http://mobilidadespt.blogspot.com/20...o-rotunda.html
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2011, 11:32 PM   #623
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,818
Likes (Received): 1818

The traffic scheme on that roundabout looks something like this:


But you can switch lanes so I think it's a mixed case.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2011, 11:42 PM   #624
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,972
Likes (Received): 6909

I would asume that if you can switch lanes it doesn't count as a pure turbo roundabout. More like a hybrid. Still it serves a rather similar purpose.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #625
Grisent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 136
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by RipleyLV View Post
First class update!

Any news concerning Väo interchange rebuilding project?
It is definitely not starting until the current E20 reconstruction stage will be complete. Several improvement projects on T11 Tallinn bypass are currently underway as well, and these projects will probably start first; only then it will be the time for Väo IC. So it is still a couple of years away.

The last news (see page 30) was that the interchange design was revised and significantly downgraded a few months ago. (T11 won't get any through lanes any more; it'll be just the six-lane T1 / E20 and a roundabout on top)

I now studied the accompanying documentation a bit. It appears that the project was changed to reduce land area. An environmental impact report, published in February 2011, pretty much ripped apart the previous draft on many grounds, including:
  • Too close to Natura-protected Pirita river;
  • Planned to rural highway standards, while actually situated in a densely populated area;
  • Disregarding a potential tram route;
  • High possiblility of water pollution;
  • Not accounting for footpaths and cycle paths.

The new, reduced project probably satisfies the environmental requirements better.
__________________
My Flickr photostream
Grisent no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #626
Tin_Can
Moderator
 
Tin_Can's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 6,794

Nice! Loo-Maardu section has made pretty good progress Only thing I'm worried about,is the fact that Peterburi mnt. from Smuuli road to current new Loo-Maardu section is still in really bad state. City should have used the opportunity,cooperated with Maanteeamet and rebuilt that few km stretch also. Imho,it would have been better to have all reconstruction works at once...
__________________
MY PHOTOS OF ESTONIA: HAAPSALU | TALLINN (1400+ PHOTOS! NEW PHOTOS!)
MY TRAVEL PHOTOS: STOCKHOLM
VISIT NORDIC & BALTIC FORUM
Tin_Can no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 01:02 AM   #627
Uppsala
Registered User
 
Uppsala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uppsala, S, Europe
Posts: 654
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisent View Post


This really looks like a nice and modern motorway. Are you sure this is still not a motorway and they are not going to have any motorway signs on it?
Uppsala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 11:03 AM   #628
Grisent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 136
Likes (Received): 1

The road is located quite close to town; it carries commuters and heavy traffic from the Port of Muuga. (There are even city bus lines running along the road right now, although I hope these will be redirected to adjacent local roads.)

Anyway, I don't believe they are going to carry out any motorway experiments on this road; there are much better candidates for that.
__________________
My Flickr photostream
Grisent no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #629
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

It seems that the crash-barriers are Radi-proof.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 02:49 PM   #630
Hasper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 57
Likes (Received): 15

Nice update!

Quote:
I'm already wondering how the lane discipline will be on the 2x3 section since this will be the first highway in Estonia with more than 2 lanes per direction.
Urban sections don't count? T4 near Järve interchange is 2x4.

Quote:
The last news (see page 30) was that the interchange design was revised and significantly downgraded a few months ago. (T11 won't get any through lanes any more; it'll be just the six-lane T1 / E20 and a roundabout on top)
Well at least it is better than the current traffic light solution or the Mao interchange with left turns.
Btw the amount of through lanes on Vao interchange on T1 has been reduced from 3+2 to 2+2.

Quote:
Only thing I'm worried about,is the fact that Peterburi mnt. from Smuuli road to current new Loo-Maardu section is still in really bad state. City should have used the opportunity,cooperated with Maanteeamet and rebuilt that few km stretch also. Imho,it would have been better to have all reconstruction works at once...
Tallinn doesn't have money to reconstruct Peterburi mnt. Maanteeamet doesn't own the road and doesn't have money. So the idea to widen it to 3+3 from Majaka intersection till Vao interchange, or repave it, has been put on indefinite hold.

Quote:
Anyway, I don't believe they are going to carry out any motorway experiments on this road; there are much better candidates for that.
2 months ago there was an interview with the head of the Estonian road department. He has stated that there won't be any motorways in Estonia (Motorway sign + 130km/h limit). Estonia can't afford motorways and our traffic density is too low. But he said there is a possibility, that 110km/h speed limits on dual carriageways (T1, T2, T4) can stay all year long, if we improve winter maintenance quality.
Hasper no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #631
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,818
Likes (Received): 1818

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisent View Post
It is definitely not starting until the current E20 reconstruction stage will be complete. Several improvement projects on T11 Tallinn bypass are currently underway as well, and these projects will probably start first;
It seems that nobody has addressed these projects before...so I'll have a go.

1) Kurna interchange. This will be built roughly at the place where T11 and Kurna-Tuhala roads cross. The project includes 4.4 km of I class highway, a grade-separated interchange, a tunnel and a bridge for pedestrians and cyclists. The technical plan is ready but no procurement for construction has yet been held. The plan: http://www.teed.ee/images/stories/pr...PLAAN_5000.pdf ( ca. 20 Mb)

2) T11 road section km 16.2 - 17.6. A technical project is in the making for a I class road section between Kurna and Luige interchanges. It will be 2x2 lanes and 1.4 km long

3) Luige interchange. This project includes 2.8km of I class highway, a grade-separated interchange between T11 and T15, 2km of cycle paths, a viaduct for cyclists and pedestrians and 1.5 km of noise barriers. The procurement for construction was held in April 2011. There were 4 offers but the winner hasn't been announced yet. The cost is approximately € 15 million. The plans are here: http://www.mnt.ee/public/projektidpl...ust_luige1.pdf and here: http://www.mnt.ee/public/projektidpl...ust_luige2.pdf

4) Juuliku interchange. This project actually includes 3.4 km of brand new highway between Juuliku and Laagri - T11340, also 3.4km of I class road on T11, a grade-separated interchange, a viaduct and a tunnel for light-traffic and a viaduct for the current route of T11340. The technical project is ready but no procurement for construction has been held. The plan: http://www.mnt.ee/public/projektidpl...gud/1.2_AS.pdf .
And a few renders:
http://www.mnt.ee/public/projektidpl...2-3dvaade2.jpg
http://www.mnt.ee/public/projektidpl...2-3dvaade5.jpg
http://www.mnt.ee/public/projektidpl...2-3dvaade3.jpg

5) T11 road section km 28.4 - 29.9 This project only includes 1.5 km of I class highway between Luige intersection and Kanama intersection(between T4 and T11). There are no interchanges nor viaducts. The technical project is ready but no procurement for construction has been held. Plan: http://www.mnt.ee/public/projektidpl...-10_1.2_AS.pdf

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; August 9th, 2011 at 01:35 AM.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #632
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,818
Likes (Received): 1818

BTW, I found a video from 2010 of driving on T15 and inside Tallinn. Although some things have changed since then (bicycle paths on the T15 near Tallinn, for example), it's still pretty interesting.
The route:
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Ro...=16&via=1&z=12

The video:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasper View Post
2 months ago there was an interview with the head of the Estonian road department. He has stated that there won't be any motorways in Estonia (Motorway sign + 130km/h limit). Estonia can't afford motorways and our traffic density is too low. But he said there is a possibility, that 110km/h speed limits on dual carriageways (T1, T2, T4) can stay all year long, if we improve winter maintenance quality.
This is probably the article in question: http://www.liiklus.ee/ee--catalog-viewObject-5-4281-2-0 . IMO, that's a load of bullshit. They should instead lower the standards of a motorway to a more reasonable level. In Estonia, the I class road standards are good enough to be signed as a motorway. Another option is raising the speed limit on the new I class roads to 120km/h.

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; August 7th, 2011 at 04:39 PM.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 05:24 PM   #633
RipleyLV
Registered User
 
RipleyLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Jelgava
Posts: 4,635
Likes (Received): 2262

@Grisent: very interesting info, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
This is probably the article in question: http://www.liiklus.ee/ee--catalog-viewObject-5-4281-2-0 . IMO, that's a load of bullshit. They should instead lower the standards of a motorway to a more reasonable level. In Estonia, the I class road standards are good enough to be signed as a motorway. Another option is raising the speed limit on the new I class roads to 120km/h.
Still 110km/h whole year sounds good IMO, plus most people exceed the speed limit by 10km/h, so that makes driving almost the same as on motorway in Finland or The Netherlands.
RipleyLV no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #634
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,818
Likes (Received): 1818

Maybe they should introduce electronic speed limit signs. This would ensure an optimal speed limit with any kind of weather.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2011, 06:16 PM   #635
Grisent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 136
Likes (Received): 1

Very good point.

It seems to me that:

1. Road Administration is still opposed to year-round higher limits. (This is my interpretation of the article; higher speed limits are presented more as a theoretical, pie-in-the-sky possibility, since a required level of wintertime road maintenance isn't really attainable yet.)

2. Hence, if a motorway were created, current legislation would apply: 90 km/h in winter and 120 km/h in summer.

3. But a motorway sign might cause motorists to expect that they can drive significantly faster; after all, a motorway with 90 km/h speed limit doesn't sound very usual, does it?

Electronic speed signs would solve the issue here.

And finally: from my own experience as a driver, I feel that 90 km/h is a perfectly adequate speed in conditions like on the following photo. I am not sure that 110 km/h would really be safe, or that I personally would want to drive at 110 km/h or faster in these conditions.

image hosted on flickr

DSC_1433 by Grisent, on Flickr
__________________
My Flickr photostream
Grisent no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #636
Grisent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 136
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
It seems that nobody as addressed these projects before...so I'll have a go.
Thanks for the detailed post! These all seem very nice upgrades, looking forward to all of them. I really hope that next year we'll already see some action at T11 Kurna junction.

T11 / T15 Luige interchange is looking like the most interesting one of the bunch.
__________________
My Flickr photostream
Grisent no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #637
Hasper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 57
Likes (Received): 15

I will continue the T-11 subject.
The new T11/T8 intersection project:
http://www.mnt.ee/public/tee/8/001R0200.pdf
http://www.mnt.ee/public/tee/8/001R0100.pdf
Hasper no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2011, 08:58 AM   #638
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisent View Post
I feel that 90 km/h is a perfectly adequate speed in conditions like on the following photo. I am not sure that 110 km/h would really be safe, or that I personally would want to drive at 110 km/h or faster in these conditions.
Safe speeds depend hugely on the capabilities of the vehicle (especially the tires) and the skill of the driver. The variance in all of these things is huge. An experienced racing driver with the right car and the right tires for the conditions might be safe at 200km/h while I might not be safe in my well-maintained Audi TT with excellent tires at 150km/h and my mother would be very unsafe in her car with typical tires at 90km/h.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2011, 08:36 PM   #639
Grisent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 136
Likes (Received): 1

You are probably right; personal opinion is not much of an argument, so nevermind that part of the post.

That said, I still find it unlikely that Road Administration might want to introduce winter 110 km/h anytime soon.
__________________
My Flickr photostream
Grisent no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2011, 08:46 PM   #640
Grisent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 136
Likes (Received): 1

From T11 / T15 interchange:



This sign needs more E-numbers.
__________________
My Flickr photostream
Grisent no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
estonia, highways, motorways, roads

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium