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Old February 12th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #741
strandeed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhirgataZFs1694 View Post
I thank God that has created estonian people to fulfill my dreams - first e-gov and now abandoning petrol fueled cars and popularising electric ones.

Huge respect!
Something which is not necessary and which Estonia can not afford.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strandeed View Post
Something which is not necessary and which Estonia can not afford.
You're right. Also, cold climates are the dumbest places for electric cars.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #743
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Well, we don't pay for any of it so...worth taking a shot!
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Old February 12th, 2012, 09:22 PM   #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Well, we don't pay for any of it so...worth taking a shot!
Of course you pay for it, just not directly. You pay for it through higher taxes, which makes it more expensive than if you paid for it directly because you have to pay the parasitic bureaucrats as well.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #745
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No, you don't understand. All these electric cars, recharging stations etc. were paid for the money received from selling CO2 quotas to Mitsubishi. No tax money goes into this project.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #746
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That money and tax money are absolutely fungible. It could have been used for something good, like roads, public transport, reforestation, education, etc. Or taxes could have been reduced. It's just being squandered.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #747
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It has also been used for public transport. 110 buses were bought with it.

Also, you can only use the money on "green" initiatives.

Reforestation in a land with 50% woods is not really an issue and the other areas you name cannot be funded with this money.

Some government and other public buildings are being made more energy efficient though, so some schools might benefit from it as well.

Trust me, there's nothing that could have been done better, and I'm proud of the Estonian government for using the money so wisely.

Despite that there are still other issues though, such as the further development of energy production with oil shale...
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Old February 12th, 2012, 11:13 PM   #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

That money and tax money are absolutely fungible. It could have been used for something good, like roads, public transport, reforestation, education, etc. Or taxes could have been reduced. It's just being squandered.
The seller of CO2 quotas has the right to dictate the conditions. Mitsubishi's offer was 500 Mitsubishi Mievs for social workers + a recharging network covering the whole country + subsidies for 500 electric cars for private buyers. The government's option was to take that offer or not. Would've it been a smarter choice to just say no? I doubt it.

Estonia has managed to sell more CO2 quotas than any other country, a total of € 360 million's worth. (Mind you, the 2012 state budget is only € 6.6 billion) As Wover mentioned, this includes many other projects like:
- insulating 480 state owned buildings (schools, local government buildings, libraries etc.)
- providing a subsidy system for insulating apartment buildings (€ 30 million)
- building wind farms (€ 19 million)
- building power plants that use renewable energy or converting old ones
- renovating central heating pipes in 34 towns and villages in Estonia
- buying 110 new buses out of which a 13 are hybrid or CNG buses. (€ 25 million)
- buying 15-16 new trams for Tallinn + reconstructing the tracks of tram line no.4 (€ 45 million)

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; February 12th, 2012 at 11:20 PM.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #749
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The whole C02 quota system is fundamentally flawed and hugely corrupt.

Suits the world of politics just fine then
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Old February 13th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #750
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Of course it's flawed but you can't blame us for using this system to our advantage.

Although I don't see why you think it's corrupt.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #751
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http://toryaardvark.com/2010/05/15/c...-trading-scam/

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/2...rading-market/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...security-delay

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole
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Old February 13th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #752
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These are all very different cases from our's but well...you can have corruption everywhere so there's probably no point in arguing over it.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 07:00 PM   #753
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I don't blame Estonia for participating in the CO2 scheme. I do blame Estonia for choosing the Mitsubishi offer. There were other offers available better suited to a cold climate.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #754
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All possible offers were taken. It's not like we ran out of CO2 quotas to sell.
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Old February 16th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #755
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KredEx has reveiled the detailed planning of fast charging stations in Estonia



"Fast charging stations will be placed on highways with higher density of traffic and in all cities and towns with at least 5000 inhabitants. The distance between highway charging stations will be approximately 40-60 km."

There are a total of 160 fast charging stations. About 100 of them are situated in cities and 60 on highways. Also, more locations may be added until April 30th.

Bigger cities:
Tallinn 27 charging stations
Tartu 10
Pärnu 4
Narva 2
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Old February 16th, 2012, 04:56 PM   #756
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And on Google maps: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...m&source=embed

The cost of building this network - € 6.6 million.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strandeed View Post
Something which is not necessary and which Estonia can not afford.
Unneccessary? Why are ecological transportation and reduction of importance of imported petrol and gas unneccessary in your opinion?
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Old February 24th, 2012, 11:30 PM   #758
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Quote:
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Unneccessary? Why are ecological transportation and reduction of importance of imported petrol and gas unneccessary in your opinion?
Ecological? Seriously? Electricity production in Estonia is based overwhelmingly on oil shale, which is much less ecologically friendly than burning petrol in cars.

In 2002, about 97% of air pollution, 86% of total waste and 23% of water pollution in Estonia came from the power industry, which uses oil shale as the main resource for its power production.

Source: http://www.kirj.ee/public/oilshale/1_ed_page_2004_1.pdf
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Old February 25th, 2012, 06:58 AM   #759
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Here is a recent photo of a charging station in Estonia.


Courtesy of http://www.hamersintartu.com/
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Old February 25th, 2012, 01:29 PM   #760
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Just to clarify, that is a regular charging point and not a fast-chargin station.
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