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Old February 19th, 2014, 07:10 PM   #1061
Shenkey
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What is with European funds for highway constrution? Most of east nations use that for 50% of financing.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 11:41 AM   #1062
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Theoretically, I think Estonia would still be able to construct new highways with support from EU, but the problem is that EU does not pay for maintenance and it appears that with current budgets, the maximum number of roads/new roads has been reached while still being able to pay for the maintenance.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 04:08 PM   #1063
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I think Estonia (and Latvia) should build more 2x2 divided highways to improve safety and driving comfort, but without the higher cost of interchanges at every crossroad. It seems to work fine in low-volume areas like Canada and central U.S.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 05:16 PM   #1064
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Hmm, i didn't understand you completely, but i'll try to explain:

There isn't a interchange at every crossroad. Roads coming towards the highway join into "side-road" and there will be a intersection maybe in a 5-10km. The problem is that all these roads (highway itself, intersections and side-roads) need to be maintained, i think the most expensive thing is to keep all of them clean during the winter. We already had times when local governments ran out of maintenance-money because we had excessive amounts of snow...
In addition, interchanges need lighting and that also costs...
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Old February 20th, 2014, 09:16 PM   #1065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think Estonia (and Latvia) should build more 2x2 divided highways to improve safety and driving comfort, but without the higher cost of interchanges at every crossroad. It seems to work fine in low-volume areas like Canada and central U.S.
I believe the Estonian Road Administration is going to go with 2+1 roads instead. Recently a study about 'passing lanes' for T2/E263 between Põltsamaa and Tartu was finished. It suggested constructing 15 sections with 2+1 lanes between the aformentioned towns. See map here. The intersections would still be at-grade and there would be U-turns after every few km-s to provide access to smaller roads and plots next to the highway. An animation of the design of this future 2+1 road can be seen here .

It would pretty much eliminate the danger of head-on collisions but also provide opportunities for overtaking after every few kilometres while keeping the cost of construction relatively low. The design mostly follows the Swedish 2+1 highways.
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Old February 21st, 2014, 01:40 AM   #1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valvejoodik View Post
Hmm, i didn't understand you completely, but i'll try to explain:

There isn't a interchange at every crossroad. Roads coming towards the highway join into "side-road" and there will be a intersection maybe in a 5-10km. The problem is that all these roads (highway itself, intersections and side-roads) need to be maintained, i think the most expensive thing is to keep all of them clean during the winter. We already had times when local governments ran out of maintenance-money because we had excessive amounts of snow...
In addition, interchanges need lighting and that also costs...
Maybe instead, use like in Michigan, USA 2x2 divided highway, no interchanges, and each crossing road just merges onto the highway directly as right-in / right-out. Then after 500 m or 1 km, there is a U-turn, so traffic wanting to go straight on the small road enters, U-turns, then exits. There are some roads like that in rural areas with 120 km/h traffic and it seems to work fine...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_left

Example:
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=romeo+...15.09,,0,-0.08
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Old February 21st, 2014, 01:01 PM   #1067
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http://www.mnt.ee/index.php?id=11186
I was looking for any info about forthcoming investment in Estonia and that's what I've found.
Am I translating it right? Is this a list of main investment projects for 2014-2020?
If yes, could you help me with finding more accurate data for project form that list?

I would much appriciate your hlep.
Thanks
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Old February 21st, 2014, 04:44 PM   #1068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think Estonia (and Latvia) should build more 2x2 divided highways to improve safety and driving comfort, but without the higher cost of interchanges at every crossroad. It seems to work fine in low-volume areas like Canada and central U.S.
We need to, but we should not build new roads, while the old ones cant be maintained properly. The situation in Estonia is better than in Latvia though.
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 03:57 PM   #1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_szczecin View Post
http://www.mnt.ee/index.php?id=11186
I was looking for any info about forthcoming investment in Estonia and that's what I've found.
Am I translating it right? Is this a list of main investment projects for 2014-2020?
If yes, could you help me with finding more accurate data for project form that list?

I would much appriciate your hlep.
Thanks
No, unfortunately these are not the investment projects for 2014-2020. The Estonian Road Administration decided to set the routes for T1/E20, T2/E263 and T4/E67 in case some day they will be built into a dual carriageway. So these are just preliminary plans so that the local governments could take into account the potential new roads, interchanges etc in their regional plans.

The investment projects for 2014-2020 haven't been set yet since this largely depends on the EU funds.

The main road projects in the Estonian transportation plan for 2014-2020 are, however:
  1. II stage of Tartu Eastern bypass. Construction of a link between Lammi street and Tartu-Räpina highway.
  2. Construction of Väo interchange (between T2/E20 and T11 or Tallinn bypass).
  3. Reconstructing T2/E20 in Sillamäe.
  4. Construction of a dual carriageway on T2/E263 between Kose and Võõbu.
  5. Construction of 'passing lanes' on T2/E263 between Põltsamaa and Tartu which essentially means a 2+1 road between these two towns.
  6. Construction of Topi interchange on T4/E67 - it's currently ongoing.
  7. Construction of 'passing lanes' on T4/E67 between Ääsmäe and Kernu
  8. Construction of Kernu bypass on T4/E67.
  9. Straightening the route at Nurme on T4/E67.
  10. Reconstructing T11 at Keila, including the construction of a new bridge.
  11. Reconstructing T11 between Kanama and Keila.
  12. Construction of the Jälgimäe viaduct (intechange?) in Jälgimäe on T11.

In addition, there are already 2 projects ongoing on Tallinn bypass (T11). These are Kurna interchange and the construction of a dual carriageway between the recently finished Luige interchange and the U/C Kurna interchange.
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 05:20 PM   #1070
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The 2+1 roads might be more safe but what I don't understand is what will happen if a slow vehicle (a tractor for example) uses the road. On the single lane it will block all the traffic behind it since there is no room for overtaking.
And there is also the question of cyclists - again due to the narrow single lane and barriers it will be hard to keep a safe distance between the cyclist and the car.
For that reason I very much like the wide Via Baltica Āda˛i - Lilaste section in Latvia. But what to car drivers think about that kind of road?
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 07:13 PM   #1071
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That's exactly what I thought about as well. Most of our highways also act as local roads that carry slower vehicles (like tractors and bicycles, as you mentioned). I'm not entirely sure how they will address that issue. The construction of the first 2+1 sections won't start before 2018, however, so a lot can still change.

I'm personally not a fan of those 1x2 highways with very wide shoulders (like the one on Via Baltica in Latvia). They seem unsafe, at least to me. A 2+1 road is definitely safer but the problem of slow vehicles still remains.
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 08:01 PM   #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
The 2+1 roads might be more safe but what I don't understand is what will happen if a slow vehicle (a tractor for example) uses the road. On the single lane it will block all the traffic behind it since there is no room for overtaking.
And there is also the question of cyclists - again due to the narrow single lane and barriers it will be hard to keep a safe distance between the cyclist and the car.
For that reason I very much like the wide Via Baltica Āda˛i - Lilaste section in Latvia. But what to car drivers think about that kind of road?
I don't think tractors should be allowed on these roads (except on a trailer being pulled by a vehicle capable of 80 km/h).
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 08:10 PM   #1073
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I think it's a choice between building alternate routes / parallel roads for agricultural traffic, or constructing 4-lane highways. The combination of 2+1 and tractors is dangerous, I don't think there are countries which allow tractors on such roads.
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 10:14 PM   #1074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think it's a choice between building alternate routes / parallel roads for agricultural traffic, or constructing 4-lane highways. The combination of 2+1 and tractors is dangerous, I don't think there are countries which allow tractors on such roads.
I'm still confused. So why would anybody (unless there already is a parallel road) spend the money to build a 100 km/h 2+1 road and an adjacent <60 km/h 1x2 local road instead of building a simple 100 km/h 2x2 highway?

I made a small illustration to compare the different road widths Here
a 100 km/h 2x2
the Estonian 2+1 + a local road for slow traffic
a 110 km/h 2x2
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 01:30 AM   #1075
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2+1 is really terrible. It isn't so bad when you are on the 2, but when you are on the 1, ouch. I am not sure if it is even better than uncontrolled normal 1x2 with passing lane...
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 02:32 AM   #1076
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The speed differences between different types of vehicles aren't as great in Estonia as in many other countries. In Estonia the maximum allowed speed for buses and trucks is 90km/h (which is also the maximum speed allowed on single carriageways in Estonia). Sure, a tractor still has a maximum speed of 40km/h but hopefully they will figur out a solution to keep tractors away from 2+1 roads.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 02:37 AM   #1077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
2+1 is really terrible. It isn't so bad when you are on the 2, but when you are on the 1, ouch. I am not sure if it is even better than uncontrolled normal 1x2 with passing lane...
The advantage of 2+1 over 1x2 is not so much how fast one can reach one's destination. The advantage is safety.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 12:51 PM   #1078
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Estonian future REAL highways/ motorways/ freeways:

1/ E20 - Tallinn-Rakvere-Jõhvi-Narva-[To St. Petersburg]
2/ E263 - Tallinn-(Mäo)-Tartu-Võru-Luhamaa
?/ E?? - Tallinn-Rapla-Türi-Viljandi-[to Latvia]
4/ E67 - Tallinn-Ääsmäe-Pärnu-Ikla-[To Riga]
8/ E265 - Tallinn-Keila-Paldiski
11/ E265 - Tallinna ringtee
5/ E?? - Rakvere-(Mäo)-(Türi)-Pärnu
3/ E264 - Jõhvi-Tartu-Valga-[to Riga]
92/ E?? - Tartu-Viljandi-Kilingi Nõmme-Pärnu
9/ E?? - Ääsmäe-Risti-Haapsalu
10/ E?? - Risti-Virtsu-Kuresaare
6/ E?? - Pärnu-Kilingi Nõmme-Valga
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Old March 4th, 2014, 04:42 PM   #1079
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Most of these roads have WAY too little traffic to justify building a motorway. Just look at the traffic density maps of 2013 for the whole of Estonia and for roads around Tallinn and Tartu. Besides, the Estonian Road Administration has showed no interest in building motorways so dual carriageways will probably be the best we can get, even in the future.

The current plans for building dual carriageways include:
- Kose-Ardu section on T2/E263 which has an AADT of ~7400. I'd say even that is a bit of a stretch in terms of traffic density but that's more to do with the poor geometry and safety of the current highway and a political will to develop the "most important highway" in Estonia.
- Jüri-Luige section on T11/E265 (Tallinn bypass) which has an AADT of 10,000-14,000.

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; March 4th, 2014 at 04:54 PM.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 09:31 PM   #1080
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Is the road towards Narva now 2x3 near Tallinn?
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