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Old November 8th, 2009, 12:18 PM   #101
Rebasepoiss
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I'll quote from Tallinn development thread.
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Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
I think this fits here too. Anyway, Estonian Road Administration wants to remove the bottleneck on Tallinn-Tartu highway in Mõigu. The road is 1+1 in Mõigu now but 2+2 before and after Mõigu. There are 3 different alternatives(which all, in fact, include space for the future tram line):
1) Simply widen the road which includes demolishing around 15 small buildings.

2) Put the through-traffic on a 700m viaduct.

3) Put the through-traffic in a 950m tunnel.

IMO, alternative one is not the best option. It may seem to be the cheapest one but buying land and demolishing houses is never simple. The viaduct has the biggest cool-factor but it's probably not so pleasant for the people in the neighbourhood. The tunnel is definitely the most expensive one but building a tunnel is the most simple one in terms of acceptance from the local people.(Although the future tram line will definitely be a thing that nobody wants next to them)
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
Damn,I already got my hopes up for seeing planes really close up . Checked the site Rebasepoiss gave here,copied and edited map of the project and here it is:
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Old November 8th, 2009, 12:33 PM   #102
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I think expropriating 15 houses and demolish them is cheaper than an elevated structure or a tunnel.

I mean, how much does a home cost in Tallinn? Maybe € 200,000? * 15 = € 3 million. You can't build a viaduct or tunnel for that money.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 01:09 PM   #103
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Yeah, I agree, it seems like demolishing those houses is the most practical option. Unless there's something that we don't know - like whether those houses are heritage. Would be great to see how they look.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 01:16 PM   #104
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I found a picture of that section in Google Earth:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/p...um/2475956.jpg


This is tee 2 (route 2) from Tallinn to Tartu, so it's one of the three major roads from Tallinn (route 4 goes to Pärnu and route 1 to Narva)
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Old November 8th, 2009, 01:22 PM   #105
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Nothing special over there. Those houses are mostly more than 20 years old and built during Soviet times. So € 3 million is a pretty realistic guess for buying and demolishing these houses.

You can download the 3 alternatives here: http://moigu.teedeprojekt.ee/ee/dokumendid?cat_id=12 . They work in Google Earth.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 03:45 PM   #106
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And they even dispute about that?! That's just ridiculous to offer two variants of elevated road or a tunnel! I really doubt even the residents of that area would be a bit against such expansion of the road which include demolishing their ancient ugly private houses! But in terms of prestige, the idea with elevated highway would be just the most suitable IMO!
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Old November 8th, 2009, 05:55 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceratops View Post
And they even dispute about that?! That's just ridiculous to offer two variants of elevated road or a tunnel! I really doubt even the residents of that area would be a bit against such expansion of the road which include demolishing their ancient ugly private houses! But in terms of prestige, the idea with elevated highway would be just the most suitable IMO!
To make an analysis on environmental impact, it's (almost always) necessary to have different alternatives. Actually there's 4 alternatives. Alternative 0 is leaving the situation as it is.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 12:22 PM   #108
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Actually building such tunnel might be cheaper than building viaduct there. Problem is that tunnel maintenance is a lot more expensive that viaduct maintenance.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 02:51 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexriga View Post
IS there any map of estonian roads U/C, including 4 lane roads sections U/C and existing?
A map of 2+2 highways in Estonia.
Some of these routes would be built during next 5 or 6 years. Some of these like Tartu-Elva would be built may be even after 15 years.
There are also long term plans for 2+2 highways from (Tallinn) Ääsmäe-Pärnu and Jõhvi-Russian border but they haven't started planning of these routes yet.

image hosted on flickr
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Old November 9th, 2009, 03:25 PM   #110
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Yes, but do any of those houses include extensive land ownership? In other words, what if the owners have a lot of land in the area? Then it becomes more expensive. Unless, of course, the land is public property in which case it is a lot cheaper to simply demolish them.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 05:18 PM   #111
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Really strange to see that Tallinn-Tartu is not even planned to be modernised into a motorway.. Why is it so? Don't they want to connect two most significant cities of Estonia?
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Old November 9th, 2009, 05:22 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceratops View Post
Really strange to see that Tallinn-Tartu is not even planned to be modernised into a motorway.. Why is it so? Don't they want to connect two most significant cities of Estonia?
Of course there's a plan but green lines on the map are those which already have a pre-project or it's in the making.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 02:13 AM   #113
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Looking at the photos on here, Estonia's signage seems more or less identical to Finlands. I assume this is a recent, post-Soviet development.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 10:47 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceratops View Post
Really strange to see that Tallinn-Tartu is not even planned to be modernised into a motorway.. Why is it so? Don't they want to connect two most significant cities of Estonia?
We can say that there is an idea to connect two cities but no plans yet.

Actually they will start to plan the route for the rest of future expressway from Mäo to Tartu probably next year. But it will take a very long time before all the road would be really built.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 01:09 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think expropriating 15 houses and demolish them is cheaper than an elevated structure or a tunnel.

I mean, how much does a home cost in Tallinn? Maybe € 200,000? * 15 = € 3 million. You can't build a viaduct or tunnel for that money.
Yes,but timewise it would be bad solution,it could take years before they finally reach road construction due to legal disputes what demolition would result. ..usually angry arguements which end up in court (people tend to go crazy when theres a chance to sell real estate to state )
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Old November 20th, 2009, 08:11 PM   #116
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3 different videos of future planned expressways:

1) E20 Rõmeda-Haljala section:


2)E263 Aruvalla-Kose section:


3)E263 Võõbu-Mäo section:

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; November 20th, 2009 at 08:18 PM.
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 05:44 PM   #117
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Cool visualization vids! Will these highways really look like that?! If so, then it would be just fantastic, you know!
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 06:41 PM   #118
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If they get built, then yes, they will look more or less like that.
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 08:07 PM   #119
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Good progress on Tallinn - Narva direction in recent years, almost half way is 2*2 already!
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 08:39 PM   #120
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Nice visualizations, but will these planned 2+2 roads be classified as expressways? In other maps I've seen them classified as 1st class roads only.
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