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Old May 2nd, 2015, 12:57 PM   #1221
Rebasepoiss
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Well Finland got EU funding for Hamina-Russian border-motorway with AADT 4000-7000 but a very high percent of trucks with 20 Km queues nowadays in the old road, so I can't imagine why it couldn't finance a great deal of the Via Baltica to upgrade it to a full motorway.
The EU money pile is finite and has to be distributed between different projects by the member state itself. For Estonia there are projects with far bigger benefits than upgrading Via Baltica to a motorway. A 1x2 road with 4,000 cars a day is perfectly fine.

BTW, truck queues on the Russian border were solved by an electronic queue system in Estonia which means you can reserve a certain time slot for crossing the border and not waste time by stading on the side of the road.
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Old May 4th, 2015, 08:19 PM   #1222
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The priorities for building dual carriageways are:
- Tallinn bypass. It has an AADT of 8,000 - 13,000 of which 15-20% is lorries. This is being carried out step-by-step (or interchange by interchange, should I say). If everything goes well we will have around 20 km of dual carriageway by 2020 on Tallinn bypass.
What about moving the Helsinki-Tallinn car ferries to Muuga (and correspondingly Vuosaari) bypassing both city centres? For passengers there could be a train connection, the railway is there already anyway. And in Helsinki it wouldn't require that much to continue with the metro to the port.

Hydrofoil services, that mostly serve foot passengers anyway, could still be centre to centre.
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Old May 4th, 2015, 10:05 PM   #1223
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Talinn-Helsinki line is still first and foremost a passenger line so the benefits of having a passenger harbour close to the city centre outweigh the downside of a bit of traffic, at least in my opinion. At least I wouldn't want to add another hour to spend going to and from the port.

Hydrofoil services cater to a very small fraction of passengers on the line. Besides, they don't run during harsh weather or during the winter period.

The Western harbour in Helsinki has a good connection to the Finnish road network - it's only around 2 km from a motorway. The central terminals are a bit worse in terms of truck traffic, it seems. In Tallinn there's a plan to upgrade the route leading to the harbour.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 12:27 AM   #1224
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Can someone please explain this? found this on Hungarian Wiki, is it a legit future motorway plan?
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Old June 4th, 2015, 09:38 AM   #1225
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That table is just listing some of the main roads in Estonia, which are locally referred to as Tx (so T1, T2, T4, rather than Kx in the article).

T1, T2 and T4 all have some stretches of motorway-like 2x2, but most of them are not entirely grade-separated and the speed limit is 90 in winter and 110 in summer.

Some people have wild dreams of T2 becoming a full motorway from Tallinn to Tatru (190km more or less), but given the traffic volumes there isn't much need. T4, the Via Baltica through the Baltics to Poland only has a very small portion of 2x2, the rest is one lane. There are no plans to turn T4 into a motorway, since traffic is very low, especially between Pärnu and the Latvian border.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 11:32 PM   #1226
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locally referred to as Tx (so T1, T2, T4, rather than Kx in the article).
Odd, I have actually never seen or heard the T... designation used for Estonian roads outside this forum.
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Old June 5th, 2015, 11:54 AM   #1227
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well the K stands forr Kiirtee rather than just Tee. that would be an upgrade I suppose...
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Old June 5th, 2015, 08:43 PM   #1228
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The "T"- designation is also used by Estonia's Road Administration (Maanteeamet).

The K-designation is not used anywhere and I don't think it will be used in the future for roads with a motorway status. If you google "K4 Tallinn Pärnu" for example you get almost no results at all, so I think someone just made it up..
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Old June 5th, 2015, 10:21 PM   #1229
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Odd, I have actually never seen or heard the T... designation used for Estonian roads outside this forum.
A couple example from T* being used: http://www.mnt.ee/failid/Tartu_maant...tana_homme.pdf ; http://www.mnt.ee/public/keskkonnaka...NE_T4_2008.pdf

Realistically only road buffs use road numbers in Estonia. The large majority of people have no clue what numbers roads have.
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Old June 7th, 2015, 12:49 AM   #1230
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Quote:
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A couple example from T* being used: http://www.mnt.ee/failid/Tartu_maant...tana_homme.pdf ; http://www.mnt.ee/public/keskkonnaka...NE_T4_2008.pdf

Realistically only road buffs use road numbers in Estonia. The large majority of people have no clue what numbers roads have.
The same thing in Lithuania too - everybody use terms like "Kaunas-Vilnius" "Šiauliai-Panevėžys" or "Road to Utena" instead, and don't even have a clue where is the road A10 or A16

Destination signage is the thing that can be unreliable (many locals didn't use those signs anyway), so I think that's a reason why road numbers are so unknown for everybody.
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Old June 7th, 2015, 01:44 PM   #1231
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In Latvia the situation has got better in the past years. People generally don't use the numbers, but most of the drivers know that f.e. A1 is Rīga-Ainaži and so on.
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Old June 7th, 2015, 09:46 PM   #1232
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I suppose that most estonians also know that Tallinn-Narva is road number 1 and Tallinn-Tartu is nr. 2, but apart from these two, no one knows more (If not Tallinn-Pärnu also)... And to be honest, who in real life can remember all these numbers about smaller roads
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Old June 7th, 2015, 09:55 PM   #1233
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I suppose that most estonians also know that Tallinn-Narva is road number 1 and Tallinn-Tartu is nr. 2, but apart from these two, no one knows more (If not Tallinn-Pärnu also)... And to be honest, who in real life can remember all these numbers about smaller roads
At least I know where nr 24 is
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Old June 7th, 2015, 10:12 PM   #1234
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Originally Posted by Valvejoodik View Post
I suppose that most estonians also know that Tallinn-Narva is road number 1 and Tallinn-Tartu is nr. 2, but apart from these two, no one knows more (If not Tallinn-Pärnu also)... And to be honest, who in real life can remember all these numbers about smaller roads
Well, I know every single A (1-15) and P (1-137) road in Latvia.
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Old June 7th, 2015, 10:26 PM   #1235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valvejoodik View Post
I suppose that most estonians also know that Tallinn-Narva is road number 1 and Tallinn-Tartu is nr. 2, but apart from these two, no one knows more (If not Tallinn-Pärnu also)... And to be honest, who in real life can remember all these numbers about smaller roads
Well, majority of Lithuanians know that A1 is an 'autostrada from Vilnius to Palanga' (A13 is not very known even in Klaipėda region ). Lithuania the most decentralized country in Baltic region, so only residents of certain region knows the numbers of the road (Some Vilnius residents knows where is autostrada A2, Minsk road A3, while residents of other cities don't)
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Old June 13th, 2015, 12:58 PM   #1236
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I suppose that most estonians also know that Tallinn-Narva is road number 1 and Tallinn-Tartu is nr. 2
I thought via Baltica is most important road.
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Old June 13th, 2015, 01:19 PM   #1237
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I don't think they number it based on importance, do they?
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Old June 13th, 2015, 01:43 PM   #1238
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I thought via Baltica is most important road.
The nrs have nothing to do with importance, apart from the fact that single digits numbers are for main highways, double digits secondary roads and triple digits local roads.

Via baltica is nr 4, but in terms of importance i would say it's 3rd.
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Old June 13th, 2015, 05:13 PM   #1239
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Well, not quite. T10, T11 and T92 are also main highways, the last one being a sort of an oddity.


Via Baltica is definitely a very important cargo route - AADT for trucks is 1,000 - 1,400. Only Tallinn bypass has more truck traffic.
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Old June 13th, 2015, 05:16 PM   #1240
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It is an important cargo route, but how will Rail Baltica affect it? Number of trucks will probably decrease, no?
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