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Old August 27th, 2014, 10:34 PM   #1201
Pansori
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Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
That's very good news !
Sorry to ask so much, but are there any plans in the near future:
- to upgrade also the A5/E67 stretch Marijampolė - Kalvarija (LT/PL) ?
- to upgrade the A1/E85 Kaunas - Vilnius 2x2 road to a real motorway/expressway?
- to finish the Vilnius southern bypass - Medininkai (LT/BY) A1+A3/E85
- to make bypasses for the towns of Utena, Alytus and Lazdijai?
Most of A1 Vilnius-Kaunas is an expressway. It does have the expressway sign and the speed limit is 110km/h. It does have some spots which do not really fulfill expressway standards but overall it does work. The next major upgrade of A1 is going to be the upgrade (widening) of the stretch North of Kaunas where speed is limited to 80km/h and there are no hard shoulders. Not sure when this is due to start but it will be some time soon.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 10:37 PM   #1202
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I think it's a good measure. Many Lithuanian drivers do have a very bad and a very dangerous habit of uncontrolled and even psychopatic urge to overtake a car in front of them. The urge is so immense that they are willing to sacrifice their own and others' lives for that purpose (overtaking the car in front). The attempt to curb it is a good thing and should help with saving lives of the population.
After driving those 5 kilometers behind a truck doing 70 km/h, they will have an even stronger urge to overtake it. The only real way to solve this problem is 2+1 roads.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 10:42 PM   #1203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I think it's a good measure. Many Lithuanian drivers do have a very bad and a very dangerous habit of uncontrolled and even psychopatic urge to overtake a car in front of them. The urge is so immense that they are willing to sacrifice their own and others' lives for that purpose (overtaking the car in front). The attempt to curb it is a good thing and should help with saving lives of the population.
You're right. It is actually a very common practice to overtake trucks on such roads while driving in the middle of the road, which is quite a shocker to foreigners. Obviously, such things have led to numerous tragic accidents.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 10:47 PM   #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
That's very good news !
Sorry to ask so much, but are there any plans in the near future:
- to upgrade also the A5/E67 stretch Marijampolė - Kalvarija (LT/PL) ?
- to upgrade the A1/E85 Kaunas - Vilnius 2x2 road to a real motorway/expressway?
- to finish the Vilnius southern bypass - Medininkai (LT/BY) A1+A3/E85
- to make bypasses for the towns of Utena, Alytus and Lazdijai?
- Contract for designing a reconstruction project of stretch Marijampolė - Kalvarija was signed recently, few weeks ago. So real works shall start within few years period.
- At the moment Vilnius-Kaunas has an expressway status. There are plans to upgrade it to motorway in approx 5 years time. First works shall start soon - tenders for building additional 2 overpasses shall be announced within 1 year time.
- Vilnius southern bypass - I guess untill 2020.
- No news for bypasses of mentioned towns.

To add up: works for the last stage of Vilnius western bypass shall start soon, while government expects to announce a tender this autumn.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #1205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
Sorry to ask so much, but are there any plans in the near future:
...
- to make bypasses for the towns of Utena, Alytus and Lazdijai?
Congestion through Alytus eased recently with construction of a new bridge. Lazdijai does not need a bypass.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 03:17 AM   #1206
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Originally Posted by makaveli6 View Post
After driving those 5 kilometers behind a truck doing 70 km/h, they will have an even stronger urge to overtake it. The only real way to solve this problem is 2+1 roads.
2+2 with no hard shoulder is safer than 2+1 ( drivers speed at the end of the 2 bit to overtake more cars before the 1 bit). Lots of countries have tried 2+1 and gven up on it.

It only works safely (maybe) if you have modern average speed enforcement cameras on ALL of the _2_ bits.

Very good quality 2+2 roads can be build with 17m of pavement ( including a wire central divider) ..and no hard shoulder, only a 1m strip. Basically the same road space with 2 continous lanes is much much safer that 2+1 or 1+1 no matter how wide the 1+1 is.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 07:16 AM   #1207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli6 View Post
After driving those 5 kilometers behind a truck doing 70 km/h, they will have an even stronger urge to overtake it. The only real way to solve this problem is 2+1 roads.
What about fining the shit out of car and truck drivers with that driving habit? I mean if every "stunt" costs them like 200 euros, they will probably think twice.

Lithuania needs more motorways!
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Old August 28th, 2014, 08:19 AM   #1208
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Congestion through Alytus eased recently with construction of a new bridge. Lazdijai does not need a bypass.
Maybe it eased, but it is still way too much for such a town.

I hadn't written anything on SSC since February 2012 and meanwhile, I moved from Paris to Vilnius. For various reasons, around once a month, I drive by car to Warsaw. I already know various roads to/from Vilnius (through Naujeji Valkininkai, through Onuškis and through Aukštadvaris) and I believe Alytus really needs a bypass, which is why I was asking
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old August 28th, 2014, 08:30 AM   #1209
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I don't disagree that a bypass of Alytus would be good, but there are higher priorities. I would like to see someday a relatively straight 2x2 road from Vilnius passing north or Alytus and joining the A5 just south of Kalvarija. Once the S61 is completed in Poland, this would be the best way to connect Vilnius to Poland and beyond. However, I think we'll see the Via Baltica go 2x2 all the way to Tallinn before we see a Vilnius-Alytus-Kalvarija expressway.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 11:40 AM   #1210
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When we complete Kaunas-Suwalki motorway and upgrade Kaunas south-eastern bypass to 2+2, Vilnius will have continous connection via dual-carriegeways that they'll be motorways in most of their length, with only one turn in Palemonas junction.

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Old August 28th, 2014, 05:23 PM   #1211
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When we complete Kaunas-Suwalki motorway and upgrade Kaunas south-eastern bypass to 2+2, Vilnius will have continous connection via dual-carriegeways that they'll be motorways in most of their length, with only one turn in Palemonas junction.
Yes, but I probably won't use it because it's absurdly long compared to a more direct route via Alytus.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 08:23 PM   #1212
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Yes, but I probably won't use it because it's absurdly long compared to a more direct route via Alytus.
Moreover, the traffic on the Kaunas -Vilnius automagistralė is so dense that you save time and fuel while going through Alytus anyway... Even if you're driving from Vilnius to Suwałki.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 08:34 PM   #1213
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What is the AADT on Kaunas-Vilnius highway?
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Old August 28th, 2014, 09:20 PM   #1214
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What is the AADT on Kaunas-Vilnius highway?
It depends in which part of a road, but AADT is between 20.000 - 24.000.
Here you can find detailed information about AADT on Lithuanian roads: http://www.lakd.lt/files/zemelapiai/EI_2013_bendras.jpg
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Old August 28th, 2014, 09:44 PM   #1215
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It depends in which part of a road, but AADT is between 20.000 - 24.000.
Here you can find detailed information about AADT on Lithuanian roads: http://www.lakd.lt/files/zemelapiai/EI_2013_bendras.jpg
Looking at this map, IMHO Alytus needs a bypass. This town alone has got an AADT that is almost equivalent to the Via Baltica section (A5/E67) Marijampolė-Kaunas, and that despite the existence of the Eastern bypass (road 129)

Not surprised at all by the AADT of the A1 Vilnius-Kaunas. It should be 2x3 instead of 2x2, but as far as I know there are no plans for such an upgrade.

Are there any plans to make any bypass to the Vilnius section near Trakų Vokė (Savanorių pr.)?
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Old August 28th, 2014, 10:00 PM   #1216
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You really don't need 2x3 lanes for 20,000 - 24,000 vehicles per day. A four-lane highway will do just fine.

It is substandard though, with right in, right out accesses, substandard interchanges and farm / house accesses. If it would be upgraded to a regular standard motorway, there is no need for any widening. There are 2x2 motorways with four times that amount of traffic.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 10:29 PM   #1217
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You really don't need 2x3 lanes for 20,000 - 24,000 vehicles per day. A four-lane highway will do just fine.

It is substandard though, with right in, right out accesses, substandard interchanges and farm / house accesses. If it would be upgraded to a regular standard motorway, there is no need for any widening. There are 2x2 motorways with four times that amount of traffic.
Yeah, Kaunas-Vilnius is really substandart and expressway-signposted just because we don't use speed-limit signs higher than 100 km/h in non-motorways, but it's decided that it "fits" for 110 km/h speed

Question.And what makes interchanges substandart in that road? I know that acceleration/deceleration lanes should be 250 m lenght (acording to our new signposting rules), now is 150 m> (except if there was a bus stop in that place)

And there plans to upgrade interchanges, install collector roads, etc.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 10:58 PM   #1218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You really don't need 2x3 lanes for 20,000 - 24,000 vehicles per day. A four-lane highway will do just fine.

It is substandard though, with right in, right out accesses, substandard interchanges and farm / house accesses. If it would be upgraded to a regular standard motorway, there is no need for any widening. There are 2x2 motorways with four times that amount of traffic.
Which is why I can't see it becoming a real motorway. There aren't any alternative routes or connecting roads for non-motorway traffic. I just can't imagine how it should be done from a technical point of view. Unless they leave it sub standard which is the current A1 between Kaunas and Klaipeda as well as A2.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 11:57 PM   #1219
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There are works planned between new Moluvenai interchange to Biruliskes interchange (A6/E262) in Kaunas. There are speed restrictions near bus stations (because of pedestrians) and the current priority is get rid of those restrictions by transfering those bus stations to interchange ramps (if there is interchange), or installing pedestrian overpass/underpass. After this, frontage road, overpass/underpass constructions should appear, it will create alternative routes for pottential non-motorway traffic.

Talking about standarts, Kaunas-Klaipeda is nearly up-to-standart (except for some bus-stops near Kaunas and Klaipeda and very minor farm acceses, short deceleration/acceleration lanes (new reconstructions since 2012 now with longer lenght lanes), two U-turns. Vilnius-Panevezys has more bus-stops, farm acceses and U-turns and abolishing those items are economicaly inefficient (needs long frontage roads, new (under/over)passes that nobody would use them)

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Old August 29th, 2014, 03:24 AM   #1220
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You really don't need 2x3 lanes for 20,000 - 24,000 vehicles per day. A four-lane highway will do just fine.
You do need a Motorway grade 2+2 with hard shoulders and grade separation ..etc.....at those traffic levels. At least then you can get to near enough 50k AADT with no further investment required.

The Irish D2AP class of motorway will handle everything in Lithuania other than the main north south road on the 'Via Baltica' and a few roads around Vilnius ( where you may need to leave room to widen in future.

http://nrastandards.nra.ie/road-desi...3b661/no_html1

There is a higher standard in Ireland with wider lanes ( 3.65m instead of 3.5m) but that is mainly useful on long distance routes where drivers may wobble a bit owing to tiredness. In a small country 3.5m wide lanes are just fine.
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