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Old January 30th, 2017, 08:53 PM   #1521
italystf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Can we call this a Schrödinger motorway? A section that simultaneously is and is not a motorway?

https://www.google.fi/maps/@55.55324...7i13312!8i6656

The picture is from a gravel road (that only has a short asphalted section around this intersection), that seems to continue towards the horizon: but in order to drive through from here, one needs to turn right, make a u-turn and then turn right again. When doing so, one must drive a short section along the Panevezys-Vilnius road that is signposted as a motorway in both of its endpoints.

However, when driving through here, one does not encounter a "motorway begins" sign. That sign is only seen after the u-turn point, for those continuing towards Panevezys or Vilnius.

On the other hand, when driving along the main road – which is, as mentioned, signposted as motorway – into this very same intersection, one does not encounter a "motorway ends" sign either.

So which is it? For instance, are bicycles and tractors allowed when going through here? If they are not allowed, which is the sign that actually bans them? And if they are allowed, isn't that an unpleasant and possibly dangerous surprise for those already on the main road, believing that to be a motorway?
Was this the only 'motorway' built in the USSR?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 30th, 2017, 11:02 PM   #1522
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There's a section that has 8 U-turns in 9 km (https://www.google.ee/maps/dir/55.49...!4m1!3e0?hl=et) I think that shouldn't really be classified as a motorway at that point.
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Old January 30th, 2017, 11:11 PM   #1523
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Dual carriaggeways with U-turns aren't that common in Europe, as they are in other countries (USA, Canada, Brazil,...).
At least in the USA, however, they don't have Interstate/freeway designation, but are just ordinary roads.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 05:02 AM   #1524
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the U-turn kind of road (Michigan left :P) is pretty rare in Canada
Our divided highways are just two carriageways... the minor road runs straight across
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Old January 31st, 2017, 05:46 AM   #1525
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I don't see anything particularly bad on designated u-turn points on dual carriage roads, provided the AADTs don't justify grade separation. I just don't like such roads to be called motorways or signposted as such.
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Last edited by OulaL; January 31st, 2017 at 06:24 AM.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 08:22 AM   #1526
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Quote:
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I don't see anything particularly bad on designated u-turn points on dual carriage roads, provided the AADTs don't justify grade separation. I just don't like such roads to be called motorways or signposted as such.
There are numerous roads across Europe that do not comply to contemporary motorway standards yet are signposted as motorways. Which creates a paradox that old motorways that do not comply keep their signs yet new dual carriageways that comply to better standards do not get a motorway or expressway designation.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 10:26 AM   #1527
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I don't think there are many motorway status roads in Europe with U-turns.

Substandard elements are usually the interchanges or the alignment.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 10:42 AM   #1528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
There are numerous roads across Europe that do not comply to contemporary motorway standards yet are signposted as motorways. Which creates a paradox that old motorways that do not comply keep their signs yet new dual carriageways that comply to better standards do not get a motorway or expressway designation.
True. It is sufficient to see, for example, the A86 motorway in the Paris area for instance (narrow emergency lane). However, they do not have any U-turns. in the middle of the road. U-turns are extremely dangerous and should not be on motorways nor expressways anywhere.
Let us hope the Lithuanian government gets some EU-money to do something about it.

Btw, does anyone know if the A19 (Vilnius Southern bypass) will be built between Baltoji Vokė and Skaidiškės is scheduled to be built at any point?
Any grade-separated crossroads scheduled to be built close to Trakų Vokė?
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 12:42 AM   #1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't think there are many motorway status roads in Europe with U-turns.

Substandard elements are usually the interchanges or the alignment.
There are some roundabouts, and in some sense roundabouts can be understood as u-turns. Although the priority rules are different.

EDIT: or are there? I only found one, the junction of E4 and 34 in Linköping (Sweden), which is practically a roundabout for 34 (E4 crosses it on a bridge), and completely motorway. I tried to search for more that I thought I'd remember, but in most cases the motorway ends right before the roundabout, even though it would continue immediately thereafter.
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Last edited by OulaL; February 2nd, 2017 at 01:04 AM.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 01:16 AM   #1530
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I don't think there are many motorway status roads in Europe with U-turns.
The only one I know is A6 near Millesimo, Italy
https://www.google.it/maps/@44.3594618,8.2028722,15z
This is a very particular case, though, as the carriaggeways are very detached each other.

There's another one on GRA (Rome's ringroad), but it involves only the outer local express lanes, not the motorway itself. Althogh local express lanes have motorway (green) signs too.
https://www.google.it/maps/@41.8318764,12.3860555,17z
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; February 2nd, 2017 at 01:26 AM.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 01:19 AM   #1531
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There's lots of roundabouts under motorway restrictions in the UK.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 01:34 AM   #1532
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There's lots of roundabouts under motorway restrictions in the UK.
Oh yes. And the one on M4 with the junction to Heathrow spur even has traffic lights.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 04:40 AM   #1533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
The only one I know is A6 near Millesimo, Italy
https://www.google.it/maps/@44.3594618,8.2028722,15z
This is a very particular case, though, as the carriaggeways are very detached each other.

There's another one on GRA (Rome's ringroad), but it involves only the outer local express lanes, not the motorway itself. Althogh local express lanes have motorway (green) signs too.
https://www.google.it/maps/@41.8318764,12.3860555,17z
Feel free to answer this on the Italian thread, of course, but that whole stretch on the A6 between Savona and Mollere is kinda crazy, where the two carriageways have what appears to be little more than a passing relationship with one another for many miles. How did that come to be?
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 10:26 AM   #1534
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I answered on the Italian thread.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 07:40 PM   #1535
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Tender starts for motorway construction on Via Baltica road A5 between Kaunas and Marijampolė. Segment from 45,15 to 56,83 km.



So if everything will go smooth with procedures, before summer we will see total ~21 km long segment being reconstructed to a 2x2 motorway
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Old February 5th, 2017, 08:02 PM   #1536
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Would this road actually get motorway signage? Or just an expressway like A9 between Siauliai and Radviliskis? Not that it makes any difference but it would be nice to have more motorway signs in Lithuania.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 09:44 PM   #1537
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Would this road actually get motorway signage? Or just an expressway like A9 between Siauliai and Radviliskis? Not that it makes any difference but it would be nice to have more motorway signs in Lithuania.
It will be a motorway, not an expressway So more motorway signs are coming to Lithuania
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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:03 PM   #1538
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It will be a motorway, not an expressway So more motorway signs are coming to Lithuania
Good to know. Would that also be reflected in terms of standards? If yes how exactly?
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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:26 PM   #1539
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Good to know. Would that also be reflected in terms of standards? If yes how exactly?
It will meet motorway standard in terms of curves bend, width of median, length of acceleration and braking lanes, more space between road and forests etc.
For example a left lane is 3.75m wide on motorways in comparison to 3.50m on expressways. Service lane is 2.50m, whereas on expressways 2.00m.
This pic describes differences quite well (AM is motorway, I class is an expressway)

Source
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Old February 6th, 2017, 12:33 AM   #1540
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It will meet motorway standard in terms of curves bend, width of median, length of acceleration and braking lanes, more space between road and forests etc.
What about designated u-turn points?
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