daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 6th, 2017, 12:46 AM   #1541
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,972
Likes (Received): 6909

Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
What about designated u-turn points?
No U turns, traffic lights or pedestrian zebra crossings.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 7th, 2017, 11:29 AM   #1542
GROBIN
Conducteur infatigable
 
GROBIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Francilien délocalisé, issu de la diversité
Posts: 712
Likes (Received): 1607

On the Polish side it is also moving at last

I wonder when it will also start moving between Kaunas and Tallinn. Maybe someone knows anything about the Lithuanian northwards Via Baltica section? Will they use the current Via Baltica path? Or will they use a new one, for instance by upgrading the existing 2x2 Kaunas-Karmėlava(airport)-Jonava?
__________________
Everyone smiles in the same language.
Self-called tolerant people tend to be tolerant only with people with similar opinions & call others "retards".


Been Drove Rode my bike Lived:
A AND AUS B BIH BY CZ D E EST ET F FIN GB H HR I IL L LT LV MAL MC PL RI SGP SK SLO T TN USA UA YV

"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
GROBIN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 12:56 PM   #1543
makaveli6
(:
 
makaveli6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rīga & Jelgava
Posts: 3,103
Likes (Received): 1314

Aren't the traffic volumes too low to justify widening of Via Baltica north of Kaunas? I couldn't find traffic intensity stats for 2016.
__________________

My clinched highways in Latvia (updated Jan 2018), Lithuania (updated Jan 2018) &
Poland.
makaveli6 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 02:06 PM   #1544
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,972
Likes (Received): 6909

I don't think there are such plans to begin with. Reason being what Makaveli6 said.

Car ownership has stabilized and is not increasing (will likely start decreasing) which means traffic volumes are not likely to increase either.

Also due to expansion of railway infrastructure (Rail Baltica which albeit slowly is moving ahead) and likely implementation of self-driving cars at some point in the future (=drastic increase in road capacity and safety with existing infrastructure) I don't think we'll ever need to expand A8 North of Kaunas. Perhaps just cosmetic/safety improvements here and there.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 02:46 PM   #1545
GROBIN
Conducteur infatigable
 
GROBIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Francilien délocalisé, issu de la diversité
Posts: 712
Likes (Received): 1607


That is why I was asking if there are any plans to make all the A6 Kaunas-Karmėlava-Ukmergė 2x2! The Via Baltica path in LT would then be Kalvarija (LT/PL)-Kaunas-Ukmergė-Panevėžys-Saločiai (LT/LV). I think it would be more cost-effective given the fact that you have people living in Jonava, working both in Kaunas and in Vilnius. But I don't know if such conception exists at all.

Anyway, on the LV-side, driving on the Latvian Via Baltica from Bauska to Riga is really a pain-in-the-neck so despite those self-driving cars I believe it will be needed. Driving between Panevėžys and Pasvalys is difficult - full of cars and trucks. Only the Pasvalys-Saločiai/Grenctālē(LT/LV)-Bauska Via Baltica section is quite lonely.
Having Europe almost full with self-driving cars is not, IMHO, for the next 30 years despite their progress. Especially taking in account that only big cities like Vilnius and Klaipėda are growing in Lithuania (I believe in Latvia it must be similar with Riga), a dramatic increase of quick transport possibilities from agglomeration to agglomeration will be needed.
__________________
Everyone smiles in the same language.
Self-called tolerant people tend to be tolerant only with people with similar opinions & call others "retards".


Been Drove Rode my bike Lived:
A AND AUS B BIH BY CZ D E EST ET F FIN GB H HR I IL L LT LV MAL MC PL RI SGP SK SLO T TN USA UA YV

"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
GROBIN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 03:38 PM   #1546
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,818
Likes (Received): 1818

The route through Ukmerge would be around 35% longer than the current direct route. I think a large part of the traffic would still use the current one.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 03:53 PM   #1547
makaveli6
(:
 
makaveli6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rīga & Jelgava
Posts: 3,103
Likes (Received): 1314

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I don't think there are such plans to begin with. Reason being what Makaveli6 said.

Car ownership has stabilized and is not increasing (will likely start decreasing) which means traffic volumes are not likely to increase either.

Also due to expansion of railway infrastructure (Rail Baltica which albeit slowly is moving ahead) and likely implementation of self-driving cars at some point in the future (=drastic increase in road capacity and safety with existing infrastructure) I don't think we'll ever need to expand A8 North of Kaunas. Perhaps just cosmetic/safety improvements here and there.
Have they released info on the avarage AADT on LT main roads in 2016? It would be intresting to see the year-to-year increase/decrease. For example, traffic intensity on main roads in LV has been increasing by 5-15% every year.
__________________

My clinched highways in Latvia (updated Jan 2018), Lithuania (updated Jan 2018) &
Poland.

GROBIN liked this post
makaveli6 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 04:08 PM   #1548
GROBIN
Conducteur infatigable
 
GROBIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Francilien délocalisé, issu de la diversité
Posts: 712
Likes (Received): 1607

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
The route through Ukmerge would be around 35% longer than the current direct route. I think a large part of the traffic would still use the current one.
According to Uncle Google:
- Budzisko/Kalvarija(PL/LT)-Kaunas-Vandžiogala-Panevėžys-Saločiai/Grenctāle (LT/LV): 276km
- Budzisko/Kalvarija(PL/LT)Kaunas-Jonava-Ukmergė-Panevėžys-Saločiai/Grenctāle (LT/LV): 309km
This would mean an overall 12% longer distance for the whole Lithuanian Via Baltica. Perhaps you are right - it is quite a lot - but it is only a And for the old road, well ... you can always forbid trucks as Poles did with Łomża for instance. Could mean the only way to reduce costs would be such a route, only around 10km longer than the current one. However, I'm not sure about all the Natura 2000 areas on that path...
__________________
Everyone smiles in the same language.
Self-called tolerant people tend to be tolerant only with people with similar opinions & call others "retards".


Been Drove Rode my bike Lived:
A AND AUS B BIH BY CZ D E EST ET F FIN GB H HR I IL L LT LV MAL MC PL RI SGP SK SLO T TN USA UA YV

"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
GROBIN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 04:22 PM   #1549
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,818
Likes (Received): 1818

I didn't take the whole Via Baltica in Lithuania into account, obviously, only the part that would be different:If you look at how many km of motorway you would have to build for both alternatives it's roughly around 80 km vs 70 km. I think that extra 10 km is worth it.

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; February 7th, 2017 at 04:27 PM.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 04:53 PM   #1550
GROBIN
Conducteur infatigable
 
GROBIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Francilien délocalisé, issu de la diversité
Posts: 712
Likes (Received): 1607


Not exactly given the already existing 2x2. From Kaunas to Karmėlava it would only be a reconstruction.
From Jonava to Ukmergė it is 45km to upgrade to 2x2
However, if we do it according to the approximate 3rd conception I presented, yes you'd be right - it'd be around 75km to make, partly on a new path. It means basically a 2-3km difference with the current route to upgrade. Not a lot - you are right.
__________________
Everyone smiles in the same language.
Self-called tolerant people tend to be tolerant only with people with similar opinions & call others "retards".


Been Drove Rode my bike Lived:
A AND AUS B BIH BY CZ D E EST ET F FIN GB H HR I IL L LT LV MAL MC PL RI SGP SK SLO T TN USA UA YV

"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
GROBIN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 05:57 PM   #1551
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,972
Likes (Received): 6909

Some tables and maps for 2015. No 2016 data yet

AADT on the main roads. All vehicles


AADT on the main roads. Heavy vehicles


AADT map, all vehicles (click for large version)


AADT map, heavy vehicles (click for large version)
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 06:29 PM   #1552
GROBIN
Conducteur infatigable
 
GROBIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Francilien délocalisé, issu de la diversité
Posts: 712
Likes (Received): 1607

Interesting to see how the crisis affected AADT after 2008
__________________
Everyone smiles in the same language.
Self-called tolerant people tend to be tolerant only with people with similar opinions & call others "retards".


Been Drove Rode my bike Lived:
A AND AUS B BIH BY CZ D E EST ET F FIN GB H HR I IL L LT LV MAL MC PL RI SGP SK SLO T TN USA UA YV

"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
GROBIN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 06:33 PM   #1553
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,573
Likes (Received): 19366

The Lithuanian side of the Sovetsk bypass is numbered A21, I did not know that. Google Earth satellite imagery from September 2016 indicates the border crossing is not yet operational.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 06:56 PM   #1554
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,972
Likes (Received): 6909

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Lithuanian side of the Sovetsk bypass is numbered A21, I did not know that. Google Earth satellite imagery from September 2016 indicates the border crossing is not yet operational.
Good spot. Apparently there is such a road and it's Panemunė (small town in that area) bypass. Not shown in Goodle Maps for some reason.

I did a quick search and it seems the numbering is temporary due to some re-routing issues.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 10:00 PM   #1555
Xmaster
Lithuanian
 
Xmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vilnius, LT
Posts: 481
Likes (Received): 329

Talking about Via Baltica north bound from Kaunas - plans are only for 2+1 road. No need for a motorway, taking into consideration, that AADT is 6000-7000.
Xmaster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 11:09 PM   #1556
GROBIN
Conducteur infatigable
 
GROBIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Francilien délocalisé, issu de la diversité
Posts: 712
Likes (Received): 1607

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmaster View Post
Talking about Via Baltica north bound from Kaunas - plans are only for 2+1 road. No need for a motorway, taking into consideration, that AADT is 6000-7000.


...but mainly trucks...
__________________
Everyone smiles in the same language.
Self-called tolerant people tend to be tolerant only with people with similar opinions & call others "retards".


Been Drove Rode my bike Lived:
A AND AUS B BIH BY CZ D E EST ET F FIN GB H HR I IL L LT LV MAL MC PL RI SGP SK SLO T TN USA UA YV

"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
GROBIN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2017, 11:24 PM   #1557
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

Kaunas - Panevežys is very good in my opinion and allows a lot of safe overtaking possibilities. Some improvements would be welcome, but it still allows quite fast travel and relatively safe travel despite substantial heavy traffic.

As I drove in last two years over Lithuanian roads, those on main directions have very good alignments and mostly good pavement. Something that Latvia could learn.
keber está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2017, 12:39 AM   #1558
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 636
Likes (Received): 121

The next thing I'd wish to see on Via Baltica would be a decent Riga bypass and a new 2+2 bridge upstream of the Riga hydro power plant.

The current road is 1+1 and goes straight through the power plant, and the next bridge upstream is 32 km away.
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2017, 06:21 AM   #1559
belerophon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: next to Chemnitz
Posts: 184
Likes (Received): 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Kaunas - Panevežys is very good in my opinion and allows a lot of safe overtaking possibilities. Some improvements would be welcome, but it still allows quite fast travel and relatively safe travel despite substantial heavy traffic.
As I drove in last two years over Lithuanian roads, those on main directions have very good alignments and mostly good pavement. Something that Latvia could learn.
Well, i don't know. I drove roads all over eastern europe, and much of them are worse of course. But if you drive there in one day (which was unthinkable not so long ago) you fear everything which comes after Warsaw.

Let me not be missunderstood, i don't doubt that it is mostly unnecessary for the national need. And of course the more motorway you have the less of the country you see. And the faster one can go from Saxony to Latvia the more similar they get.

I am just really happy about the motorway evolution in Romania for example. But its true this country has a small number of Motorways for the real core network. And still some 30Million inhabitants compared to the baltics altogether.

Thats also the cause, why the plan (visible in googlemaps) for the mentioned bridge of maybe A4 over the Daugava basin won't happen easy. For the same money one can build much more "simple" road (in such flat territory).

The distance there is some 2,6km. The river basin itself is 1,2km broad.
I don't know anything about the depth. But if you don't want to build a 1,2km span (which is ruling out i suppose) you need to let some of the water out.

https://www.google.de/maps/@56.83413.../data=!3m1!1e3 The measurement is not savable Sry. Doityourself

This means at first, that the powerplant won't work as good as before. I can't tell the percentage, because i have no data about how deep the river basin is there and how much you should reasonably let the water fall. As Latvia is a big importer (and exporter of electricity) whith a negative saldo altogether, this would affect the whole country, because there are not so much powerplants.

With index mundi (in several languages) you can obtain the electricity production, consumtion, imports and exports data etc.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=lg&v=82&l=en

The following article says, that this powerplant alone produces around 38% of all of Latvias electricity.

https://www.renovabis.de/news/3639/l...ei-wasserkraft (in german)

The article says also, that after the independence Latvia needed to import nearly half the electricity, so that they encouraged every single old watermill etc. to rebuild if possible. A country which faced such problems won't risk this again. It will be one of the Top political debates at all. And this would take more time...

Also the basin provides water for Riga, i think everyone knows what this means for the idea of any heavy works inside it.

https://www.rigasudens.lv/about-comp...ter-supply/en/

So what is realistic? Maybe more security for pedestrians and bicyclers, some less level crossings etc. which means more security for those turning left (and everyone who follows). Some parallel local roads maybe. The Via baltica goes around of any big dity already (better than in Latvia that's true). But i think if it is clear that there won't be 2x2, there are some things possible.

I seems to me that those people in office there are very careful, because they have not much money. If you built some small security improvements, but upgrade to 2x2 later, you pay twice. And trends of AADT for example are tricky. Often politics are blamed to overestimate the future evolution to justify a road project. Well you might also blame them for underestimating something afterwards. "Everyone would have known that it must go like this, only they did not hear and so on"....
__________________
Been in: A, AL, BG, BIH, CGO, CH, CZ, D, (F), FL, H, HR, I, IL, JOR, LT, LV, MK, PL, RO, SK, SLO, SRB.

Drove my car everywhere except: IL, JOR

Kanadzie liked this post
belerophon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2017, 08:38 AM   #1560
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 636
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by belerophon View Post
Thats also the cause, why the plan (visible in googlemaps) for the mentioned bridge of maybe A4 over the Daugava basin won't happen easy. For the same money one can build much more "simple" road (in such flat territory).

The distance there is some 2,6km. The river basin itself is 1,2km broad.
I don't know anything about the depth. But if you don't want to build a 1,2km span (which is ruling out i suppose) you need to let some of the water out.
I'm not sure I understood... this wouldn't surely be the first time with a bridge having pillars in the middle of a river?

I don't assume this to be cheap, but the current crossing at the Riga power plant is a pain, a serious bottleneck for national and indeed international traffic. Theoretically it would of course be possible to build a new bridge downstream, but then we're getting quite close to the city and that would have problems of its own.
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
lithuania, roads

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium