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Old May 29th, 2010, 02:08 AM   #341
patrykus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre000 View Post
Reminds me a bit of Ocean Heights with that curve at the top. Trump Tower (chicago) minus the spire, is similar to this.

It's just a blue/grey glass box with setbacks and a curved crown. It's not the worst tower, but it's nothing special.
Its in New York :P

But, serously. I have problem with that tower. Everybody says its so great that im no confident any more. Althougt My first reaction was like "What, this is that great amazing design?" They say first reaction is the best one Still, it may look nice in reality. But about one thing I'm pretty sure. If that design, especially with that height, would be proposed somewhere in china, nobody would have even noticed it...
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Old May 29th, 2010, 07:01 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Its in New York :P

But, serously. I have problem with that tower. Everybody says its so great that im no confident any more. Althougt My first reaction was like "What, this is that great amazing design?" They say first reaction is the best one Still, it may look nice in reality. But about one thing I'm pretty sure. If that design, especially with that height, would be proposed somewhere in china, nobody would have even noticed it...
Just 3 examples to prove you wrong:
1) Tianjin International Center, 300 m with a design that is a punch in the eye;
2)Project T106 in Shenzen, 301 m, a rounded off box. Probably one of the most boring design of the decade.
3) Leatop Plaza, in Guangzhou, 302 m, that looks like it came out straight from the 60's, don't really even know how to define it.

3 projects, that took me 2 minutes to find. All on the front page, all with a considerable amount of comments, all on a skyscraper international forum.
All 3 facts that prove you, embarrassingly wrong. Congratulations.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 07:12 AM   #343
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I can't help wondering, with a design this cheesy, why did Extell even bother hiring De Portzamparc? Kostas Kondylis, Donald Trump's choice hack could have done a better job...
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Old May 29th, 2010, 07:50 AM   #344
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I can't help wondering, with a design this cheesy, why did Extell even bother hiring De Portzamparc? Kostas Kondylis, Donald Trump's choice hack could have done a better job...
I guess they wanted to blow a few million on a starchitect. A waste of money for a marketing plug.

The top is the worst. I was expecting a sharp pointed crown (that would look great lit up at night). Instead it's an ugly, curved, whatever.

I like the lower levels. That part looks interesting. And it's got some height. I'm more mad at myself for believing the hype the developer was dishing out over this one.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 08:39 AM   #345
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Finally another supertall without a spire!

How luxurious those apartaments may be!!! And what an elegant area.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 12:06 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
Just 3 examples to prove you wrong:
1) Tianjin International Center, 300 m with a design that is a punch in the eye;
2)Project T106 in Shenzen, 301 m, a rounded off box. Probably one of the most boring design of the decade.
3) Leatop Plaza, in Guangzhou, 302 m, that looks like it came out straight from the 60's, don't really even know how to define it.

3 projects, that took me 2 minutes to find. All on the front page, all with a considerable amount of comments, all on a skyscraper international forum.
All 3 facts that prove you, embarrassingly wrong. Congratulations.
Tianjin International Center - 24 pages
Project T106 - 5 pages
Leatop Plaza - 10 pages

So you did prove actually my point I'm not a fan of any of them, but for instance Leatop Plaza, a boxy scraper, if proposed for NY, everybody would jumping around. Its half complited and has only 10 pages. Carnegie 57, has jast released design, and just done foundation, and it has allready 18 pages, couse its in NY.

As for the design, after a while I think that:
- it looks quite nice from the street level (entrance)
- details, and clading may be nice (hard to say from those renders)
- look from the central park is still ugly, and unproportional for me

But, for sure its not as stunning, as they first describe it.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 02:34 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
I'm not a fan of any of them, but for instance Leatop Plaza, a boxy scraper, if proposed for NY, everybody would jumping around. Its half complited and has only 10 pages. Carnegie 57, has jast released design, and just done foundation, and it has allready 18 pages, couse its in NY.
this is pretty normal. if a 300m supertall or even a skyscraper gets build in NYC, HK, london, paris, tokyo and even shanghai it gets more attention. other cities have to produce superlatives, e.g. 400m+ supertalls, to get the people's attention. they just don't have the bonus of being famous.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 05:31 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Tianjin International Center - 24 pages
Project T106 - 5 pages
Leatop Plaza - 10 pages

So you did prove actually my point I'm not a fan of any of them, but for instance Leatop Plaza, a boxy scraper, if proposed for NY, everybody would jumping around. Its half complited and has only 10 pages. Carnegie 57, has jast released design, and just done foundation, and it has allready 18 pages, couse its in NY.

As for the design, after a while I think that:
- it looks quite nice from the street level (entrance)
- details, and clading may be nice (hard to say from those renders)
- look from the central park is still ugly, and unproportional for me

But, for sure its not as stunning, as they first describe it.
Plus really the only ugly one out of the three is Tianjin International Center, and that's because the design is over a decade old at this point.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 07:38 PM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Tianjin International Center - 24 pages
Project T106 - 5 pages
Leatop Plaza - 10 pages

So you did prove actually my point I'm not a fan of any of them, but for instance Leatop Plaza, a boxy scraper, if proposed for NY, everybody would jumping around. Its half complited and has only 10 pages. Carnegie 57, has jast released design, and just done foundation, and it has allready 18 pages, couse its in NY.

As for the design, after a while I think that:
- it looks quite nice from the street level (entrance)
- details, and clading may be nice (hard to say from those renders)
- look from the central park is still ugly, and unproportional for me

But, for sure its not as stunning, as they first describe it.
Again, the ONLY fact that they are on an international skyscraper forum, and that people know about it, proves you wrong. Again.

The fact that there are less comments than one regarding NY, well, that can be said for almost every skyscraper that isn't in an industrialized country (China being considered a developing country). Exceptions are made for Dubai, given the phenomenon it has been, and skyscrapers with exceptional hight. The reason of this? Well, check how many users that visit this website come from the western part of the world (North America, Europe, but even South America) and compare it to the quantity of people that come from East Asia, and compare that as well as a percentage to the local population (since most people will comment mostly on skyscrapers that are in their country or at least continent). You will see, again, just how pathetic and poorly conceived was your statement.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 08:04 PM   #350
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Well, at the end, everyone has diferent taste and opinion..
I think this baby will be amazing when gets built.. We haven't even seen a real "all angle" renders, so it's not interesting to fight about being beautiful or not.. But it's gona be nice shiny blue tall 300m tower standing over NY and most people will agree that it's beautiful...
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Old May 29th, 2010, 08:52 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
Again, the ONLY fact that they are on an international skyscraper forum, and that people know about it, proves you wrong. Again.
Oh, boy by unnoticed i meant underestimated and less commented. Since there is at least one asian person on this forum, those scrapers will be on the international forum. Thats obvious, but proves nothing.

Quote:
The fact that there are less comments than one regarding NY, well, that can be said for almost every skyscraper that isn't in an industrialized country (China being considered a developing country). Exceptions are made for Dubai, given the phenomenon it has been, and skyscrapers with exceptional hight. The reason of this? Well, check how many users that visit this website come from the western part of the world (North America, Europe, but even South America) and compare it to the quantity of people that come from East Asia, and compare that as well as a percentage to the local population (since most people will comment mostly on skyscrapers that are in their country or at least continent). You will see, again, just how pathetic and poorly conceived was your statement.
Thats exactly what I was talking about. You seems to first check location, and then look at the design. I dont care about that. Design is design. Wherever it is. And that is what annoys me. If that tower would be proposed anywhere out of the US you would say its ugly, and boring, but since its in NY its automaticly overestimated.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
If that tower would be proposed anywhere out of the US you would say its ugly, and boring, but since its in NY its automaticly overestimated.
So what if it was proposed in a place like London? Toronto or any other European city this would be a big deal


EDIT: And pretty much every country besides china or UAE
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Old May 29th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Oh, boy by unnoticed i meant underestimated and less commented. Since there is at least one asian person on this forum, those scrapers will be on the international forum. Thats obvious, but proves nothing.
"underestimated" and "less commented" are not synonyms of "unnoticed". Your mistake.
By saying that a skyscraper like this would go unnoticed, it would mean that, in that determined place, it would be something that happens all the time, therefore people wouldn't "notice the difference". / If it was there or not, nobody would notice the difference. Those are some of the meanings that can be applied to "unnoticed" in this context.

Now that you have explained what you actually meant, case close, since my argument does not apply to that.

Quote:
Thats exactly what I was talking about. You seems to first check location, and then look at the design. I dont care about that. Design is design. Wherever it is. And that is what annoys me. If that tower would be proposed anywhere out of the US you would say its ugly, and boring, but since its in NY its automaticly overestimated.
Actually, I've noticed exactly the opposite. Since it is New York, where there are extremely famous skyscrapers (ESB, Chrysler building, GE building, WTC, Lipstic building, Citygroup building, all of which were "first" of their kind, all of which are studied in architecture and design schools), and just because there are already so many skyscrapers, many people tend to shout "ugly" at perfectly normal designs, just because they are not original enough, but also for the exact opposite, because they are too original (see the Beekman before it was built). So, designs where in other places would be welcomed with excitement, in New York they are just dismissed with "I've seen it before" or "whatever". When people set their bar to high, they will always get disappointed. And with new York, it has been like this for a long time.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 09:21 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
"underestimated" and "less commented" are not synonyms of "unnoticed". Your mistake.
By saying that a skyscraper like this would go unnoticed, it would mean that, in that determined place, it would be something that happens all the time, therefore people wouldn't "notice the difference". / If it was there or not, nobody would notice the difference. Those are some of the meanings that can be applied to "unnoticed" in this context.
Oh, well if that wasn't obvious, then you right, its better end the discution with you
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Old May 30th, 2010, 12:54 AM   #355
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This building has 75 floors yet it's going to contain only 150 units? (The info is sourced from SkyscraperPage.) It should have had a lot more units than that, higher than the number of units at the Carnegie Hall Tower or the Metropolitan Tower.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 01:03 AM   #356
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This building has 75 floors yet it's going to contain only 150 units? (The info is sourced from SkyscraperPage.) It should have had a lot more units than that, higher than the number of units at the Carnegie Hall Tower or the Metropolitan Tower.
That's probably just the number of condominiums. It will also include a Park Hyatt Hotel as well.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 04:04 AM   #357
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While the developer incorrectly described this tower as the best built in NY in decades, it is nevertheless utterly magnificent. Any city (other than NY) in which a 300+m tower with beautiful curves was built would go wild for it.

In the midst of a great recession, NY has several 300+m towers in the works.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 04:49 PM   #358
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I like the design a lot, especially as it doesn't have some fancy/tacky feature just for the sake of it. Understated elegance is what NYC's skyline is all about.

PS. If this tower was going up in Australia, I (and every other OZScraperer ) would be absolutely over the moon with the height as well as the design.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 04:51 PM   #359
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...
PS. If this tower was going up in Australia, I (and every other OZScraperer ) would be absolutely over the moon with the height as well as the design.
I agree. If this tower was going up anywhere, people would be over the moon about it.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #360
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While the developer incorrectly described this tower as the best built in NY in decades, it is nevertheless utterly magnificent. Any city (other than NY) in which a 300+m tower with beautiful curves was built would go wild for it.

In the midst of a great recession, NY has several 300+m towers in the works.
I agree 100%

That render from the street looking up is a poor vantage point anyway. Most skyscrapers when looking straight up at the base look fairly unremarkable. Even the Beekman will probably look fairly plain from the street staring straight up.

I work in the empire state building and watched the Setai go up. I can tell you, if you stand on the street and stair straight up, it doesn't look that great. From the 43rd floor, it looks fantastic, or even from 1 or 2 blocks away.

Overall I like the design. It's not my favorite project in NY, but it's certainly in the top 5, if not three. The MOMA tower is currently #1 (although I reserve this for updated renders after the decapitation)
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