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Old September 20th, 2012, 06:01 AM   #4401
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Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
What is the relation of the squirrel to the project? Did he buy one of the units? I wouldn't normally think a squirrel would have that kind of money, but this being New York you never know.
No relation... I just thought he was cute and it was a photo I took today in the park. Sometimes its nice to lighten things up!
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Old September 20th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #4402
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I personally like the location of 157 more because of its proximity to CP. In my opinion being close to nature is the most important aspect of the location of a building
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Old September 20th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #4403
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One57 made the Printed News Media here ( Australia ) today about the high end price bracket for apartments. All floor penthouses and who's who of buyers. Article seemed to rate it NYC most expensive new address ?
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Old September 20th, 2012, 01:44 PM   #4404
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Probably. It may be surpassed by 432 Park.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 05:41 PM   #4405
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But I like a box far more than modern Art Deco
Fair enough
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Old September 20th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #4406
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That is a totally subjective opinion.

In NYC there is a big rivalry between the Upper East Side and the Upper West Side.

The East side has more money and more old money. But the West Side is catching up and has more "chic".

Also, 432 is not really in the UES as it is in a commercial area which could be taken as a negative. One57 isn't exactly in the UWS either but it is in a more mixed use area which could be appealing. One57 is across the street from Carnegie Hall and the Russian Tea room. What is across the street from 432 Park?

Purely subjective though. Some people will prefer one and others will prefer the other one. That is why both can be built.
Not at all subjective, it's quantitative. On 432 Park, "Developers are moving forward with super-secretive plans to begin construction on the most valuable development site in North America..." Park Avenue get's much more residential once you cross 57th St, which is a block from 432. And south of the site it's heavily commercial, with the HQ of JP Morgan Chase, Cantor Fitz, MLB, Park Ave is probably the premier commercial corridor in the city.

And 425 Park Avenue is across the street from 432, and it's a crummy office building from the 60s that just sold for $315 million. Again, there's a reason Ferrari of Manhattan is a block away on Park Ave.

I'm well aware of the UWS v UES money, and I agree with your assessment. But no one can honestly claim that West 57th St has the same prestige and global recognition as Park Ave. That sort of a claim has no basis in reality.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #4407
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Quote:
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Not at all subjective, it's quantitative. On 432 Park, "Developers are moving forward with super-secretive plans to begin construction on the most valuable development site in North America..." Park Avenue get's much more residential once you cross 57th St, which is a block from 432. And south of the site it's heavily commercial, with the HQ of JP Morgan Chase, Cantor Fitz, MLB, Park Ave is probably the premier commercial corridor in the city.

And 425 Park Avenue is across the street from 432, and it's a crummy office building from the 60s that just sold for $315 million. Again, there's a reason Ferrari of Manhattan is a block away on Park Ave.

I'm well aware of the UWS v UES money, and I agree with your assessment. But no one can honestly claim that West 57th St has the same prestige and global recognition as Park Ave. That sort of a claim has no basis in reality.
It is subjective. I would much prefer to live at One57 then were 432 Park is. It is much livelier around Columbus Circle.

Definitely Park Avenue has historical cachet as a place to live whereas 57th STreet doesn't. But 1) 432 is not located on that part of Park Avenue and 2) Manhattan is shifting west.

Two decades ago there would have been no argument - it would have been 432 by a mile. Now with COlumbus circle redeveloped pretty much all new buildings are taking place on the west side - One57, the one closer down towards broadway (I never remember the name), Torre Vere, Hudson Yards eventually, etc. etc. THere just isn't much space left on the east side and a lot of people don't like its stuffiness.

That is why people are paying super big bucks for One57. COuld 432 Park trump it in price? Sure. But then the even taller one on west 57 will likely trump 432 and so it goes.

And of course, there will be people who think we are both nuts and the best place to live is downtown
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Old September 20th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #4408
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It's not subjective, because you're confused about what I'm saying. You're equating the value of the site, with where you would rather live. One is clearly subjective (where someone would rather live), and one is quantitative, (the actual physical monetary value of each site). 432 Park is clearly worth more money as a developable site, as I referred to that article that named it the most valuable development site in NA. That is not debatable.

I would rather live at One57 too if money was no object, but just because I would rather live in that building, doesn't mean the actual ground the building sits on is more valuable than that of 432 Park.

Last edited by yankeesfan1000; September 20th, 2012 at 08:39 PM.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 08:45 PM   #4409
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I don't know. From the WSJ article you linked to in the other thread:

After five rounds of price increases, the condos at One57 are listed for a total of $2.27 billion in condominium documents. Including contracts signed before the price increases, Extell said it is getting an average price of about $6,000 per square foot under the contracts already signed.

At 432 Park Ave., apartments are priced a hair lower, at an average price of $5,941 a square foot. Since the 432 Park Ave. plan was approved for sale in July by the New York attorney general's office, the developers have increased prices twice, according to records.

Located across from Carnegie Hall, One57 has a dead-on view of the center of Central Park from its upper floors. 432 Park Ave. is on a world-renown thoroughfare, though in its Midtown district, not its more exclusive realm on the Upper East Side. It will also have a courtyard with a circular drive and a garden


So One57 sells for more per square foot so by that quantitative measure it is more highly valued.

But even "quantitative" measures aren't all that quantitative. For example, they were sold at different times and of course the one that sells later is likely to be higher just because of general property values going up.

Anyways, I'm not sure what this discussion is about anymore so enough from my end
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Old September 20th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #4410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
It's not subjective, because you're confused about what I'm saying. You're equating the value of the site, with where you would rather live. One is clearly subjective (where someone would rather live), and one is quantitative, (the actual physical monetary value of each site). 432 Park is clearly worth more money as a developable site, as I referred to that article that named it the most valuable development site in NA. That is not debatable.

I would rather live at One57 too if money was no object, but just because I would rather live in that building, doesn't mean the actual ground the building sits on is more valuable than that of 432 Park.
You can't compare the sites just by the location, you need to take in mind the size of each site and the development construction potential.

Anyway, the average price per sq ft is considerably higher in One57, no way 432 Park surpass it.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 12:17 AM   #4411
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Right because property values are going to increase so dramatically between the roughly 6-9 months ago that One57 started sales and the few months that 432 will? If anything it'll lower the prices 432 can charge because there's a competitor for ultra luxury apartments.

And comparing actual prices at a building that has started sales and has units in contract isn't really fair to comparing a building that hasn't opened sales at all for the exact reason you mentioned and that's because One57 has increased prices since it opened its sales offices. Who's to say 432 doesn't do the same thing, where they started at price point X, but because of such immense demand up prices to X + Y and eventually charge more than One57? Plus, because 432 is going to be a considerably taller building, I would imagine there are many more units in that buildings (I haven't looked it up only assuming), so 432 can charge less per square foot hypothetically, again if they don't raise prices like One57 did several times, but still be a higher grossing building in terms of total dollars sold in apartments.

Again, proving my point. 432 has significantly more developable or buildable square feet, that's why it's so much taller than One57, and in Manhattan being able to build taller is worth tens of millions in some cases. Basically being able to build a 1400 footer on Park, more valuable than a 1000 footer on 57th. Also, I'm assuming since you know definitively that 432 will have no chance at surpassing One57's average per sf cost you can look into the future, so mind telling me tomorrow's lotto numbers?

This is derailing this thread, but I provided a source which stated 432 as the most valuable development site in NA so continuing this argument is like arguing with a cinder block.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 12:24 AM   #4412
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idk why there's so much debate on whether 432 or one57 is more expensive, put it this way..

I can't afford an apartment at one57, i cant afford an apartment at 432 park, all that matters to me
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Old September 21st, 2012, 02:40 AM   #4413
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Taken by me like a month ago!!



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Old September 21st, 2012, 03:57 AM   #4414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Not at all subjective, it's quantitative. On 432 Park, "Developers are moving forward with super-secretive plans to begin construction on the most valuable development site in North America..." Park Avenue get's much more residential once you cross 57th St, which is a block from 432. And south of the site it's heavily commercial, with the HQ of JP Morgan Chase, Cantor Fitz, MLB, Park Ave is probably the premier commercial corridor in the city.

And 425 Park Avenue is across the street from 432, and it's a crummy office building from the 60s that just sold for $315 million. Again, there's a reason Ferrari of Manhattan is a block away on Park Ave.

I'm well aware of the UWS v UES money, and I agree with your assessment. But no one can honestly claim that West 57th St has the same prestige and global recognition as Park Ave. That sort of a claim has no basis in reality.

You're right, Yankeesfan. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as New Yorkers know, 5th, Madison and Park are far more valuable than 7th Ave.
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Old September 21st, 2012, 04:19 AM   #4415
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looks awesome
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 12:39 AM   #4416
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Once this tower tops out in March 2013, it will look great
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 02:31 AM   #4417
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Once this tower tops out in March 2013, it will look great
Its gonna take 6 months to top out?

Isn't it on the last 2 floors?
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 04:48 AM   #4418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Right because property values are going to increase so dramatically between the roughly 6-9 months ago that One57 started sales and the few months that 432 will? If anything it'll lower the prices 432 can charge because there's a competitor for ultra luxury apartments.

And comparing actual prices at a building that has started sales and has units in contract isn't really fair to comparing a building that hasn't opened sales at all for the exact reason you mentioned and that's because One57 has increased prices since it opened its sales offices. Who's to say 432 doesn't do the same thing, where they started at price point X, but because of such immense demand up prices to X + Y and eventually charge more than One57? Plus, because 432 is going to be a considerably taller building, I would imagine there are many more units in that buildings (I haven't looked it up only assuming), so 432 can charge less per square foot hypothetically, again if they don't raise prices like One57 did several times, but still be a higher grossing building in terms of total dollars sold in apartments.

Again, proving my point. 432 has significantly more developable or buildable square feet, that's why it's so much taller than One57, and in Manhattan being able to build taller is worth tens of millions in some cases. Basically being able to build a 1400 footer on Park, more valuable than a 1000 footer on 57th. Also, I'm assuming since you know definitively that 432 will have no chance at surpassing One57's average per sf cost you can look into the future, so mind telling me tomorrow's lotto numbers?

This is derailing this thread, but I provided a source which stated 432 as the most valuable development site in NA so continuing this argument is like arguing with a cinder block.
This is false. 432 Park actually has fewer square feet than One57. I believe it's roughly 1 million square feet at One57 versus 500K at 432 Park.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 04:49 AM   #4419
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Technically the last habitable floor is topped out, but the crown has yet to be installed. They will do so when the cladding catches up, as was the case with the previous curved bit.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 06:15 AM   #4420
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This is false. 432 Park actually has fewer square feet than One57. I believe it's roughly 1 million square feet at One57 versus 500K at 432 Park.
I believe they'll both be about the same size square footage wise. One57 is 853,000 (CTBUH). I don't know 432's official numbers yet. But it being 93.5'x93.5' x 89 floors, that equals 778,000 sq ft. Add the podium and it should be about the same as One57.
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