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Old May 22nd, 2009, 01:08 AM   #221
isaidso
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I'd prefer the European leagues to develop independently of the NBA. The NBA has been a disaster for the development of pro basketball in Canada. With the dominant city siphoned off to the US based NBA, no domestic league has a chance of ever developing, let alone flourishing. If anything, a European NBA would be very destructive to what already exists there. You'd have a disastrous Canadian situation where the best basketball market and corporate money is taken by the NBA, with all the other cities and towns left with crumbs and permanent obscurity.

Bad news! Don't do it.

Canada will never have a successful pro basketball league because the NBA has taken Toronto out of the equation. Do you want a repeat of that scenario from Italy to Greece to Serbia? You'll lose 90% of your teams and your basketball system will be a shell of its former self.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 01:19 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
The only parallel I can draw is Americans watching European soccer. FSC bothers to show Middlesbrough vs Blackburn, so I can only assume that basketball fans in Europe knows most or all NBA teams/cities already.
If Europe was one league I would almost guarantee that FSC would draw its biggest ratings by showing the likes teams from the likes of Madrid, Milan, Manchester, Munich, etc. The bigger the market the more likely the higher profile of a team and that goes on either side of the Atlantic. It is not a be all end all but size is a major factor for a number of practical reasons.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 01:26 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'd prefer the European leagues to develop independently of the NBA. The NBA has been a disaster for the development of pro basketball in Canada. With the dominant city siphoned off to the US based NBA, no domestic league has a chance of ever developing, let alone flourishing. If anything, a European NBA would be very destructive to what already exists there. You'd have a disastrous Canadian situation where the best basketball market and corporate money is taken by the NBA, with all the other cities and towns left with crumbs and permanent obscurity.

Bad news! Don't do it.

Canada will never have a successful pro basketball league because the NBA has taken Toronto out of the equation. Do you want a repeat of that scenario from Italy to Greece to Serbia? You'll lose 90% of your teams and your basketball system will be a shell of its former self.
More nationalist complaining from you about the horror that is the American professioanl sports scene. Yes, I am sure as 1990's rolled around was FINALLY on the cusp of drawing huge numbers in dozens of Canadian cities far and wide and the NBA just squashed every possibility of that.

If it were up to me I would tell the Blue Jays, Raptors, and 6 Canadian hockey teams to take a hike just in order to not hear you whine anymore about how the U.S. is simultaneously keeping the glory of a half dozen Canadian sports leagues from coming to fruition.
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Last edited by nomarandlee; October 31st, 2010 at 02:49 PM.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 01:57 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
More nationalist complaining from you about the horror that is the American professioanl sports scene. Yes, I am sure as 1990's rolled around was FINALLY on the cusp cusp of drawing huge numbers in dozens of Canadian cities far and wide and the NBA just squashed every possibility of that.

If it were up to me I would tell the Blue Jays, Raptors, and 6 Canadian hockey teams to take a hike just in order to not hear you whine anymore about how the U.S. is simultaneously keeping the glory of a a half dozen Canadian sports leagues from coming to fruition.



Call it what you want, but you'd complain as well if your entire country was relegated to 6 hockey teams, 1 basketball team, and 1 in baseball. Whether you care to recognize it or not, the US professional sports leagues have been an utter catastrophe for the development of professional sports in Canada.

You're absolutely blind if you think it's been a great experience for this country. If you don't like the criticism, don't log on. People aren't going to keep their mouths shut and pretend everything is great just to keep you happy. Move to North Korea if you don't like people objecting.

And by the way, the US isn't stunting the growth of pro sports in Canada, US based leagues are. That's a fact. Whether you're astute enough to recognize it is another matter. Well, it's quite evident that it's not within your capabilities.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 02:45 AM   #225
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If its a US based league then why are they obligated to expand into Canada?

They arent.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 05:56 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
If Europe was one league I would almost guarantee that FSC would draw its biggest ratings by showing the likes teams from the likes of Madrid, Milan, Manchester, Munich, etc. The bigger the market the more likely the higher profile of a team and that goes on either side of the Atlantic. It is not a be all end all but size is a major factor for a number of practical reasons.
No shit, huh? The same applies here. People want to see New York and LA over Charlotte and Phoenix. That doesn't mean people are so averse as to not watch, though.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 10:58 AM   #227
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Shove a team in Melbourne. It has no team now. A 16,000 stadium and 4 million potential fans.

Problem is 16 hours one way just to get to LA. We need those scram jets.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 12:53 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
London and Paris just because they're big? How simplistic. Hit up the nations that know the game. Greece, Spain, Serbia, Croatia, Lithuania, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Russia, etc. Several of those nations have multiple urban areas that could support well. If France factors in, they'd still be way ahead of England, who'd inevitably be included because of money and the language they speak.
Yup.....Greece, Spain, Serbia,Croatia, Lithuania, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Russia this 9 nations is basis of european basketball (+ France).

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Sorry, but no one will care about a game played in Serbia. You have to go with the big markets. London, Paris, Madrid, Berlin. The more western the better.

This whole thing is stupid anyway, so it doesnt matter.
Probably in America no one will care but in Europa,Serbia is big "thing" in basketball.
I agree,this whole thing is stupid so it doesnt matter.

Euroleague game,KK Partizan Belgrade-CSKA Moscow
SERBIA,Belgrade Arena,22 000 fans


Last edited by makimax; May 25th, 2009 at 01:08 AM.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 01:04 AM   #229
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This is why NBA will always be inferior to NCAA or Euroleague. Game experience is far more than just watching the players playing.


Last edited by SpicyMcHaggis; May 25th, 2009 at 01:11 AM.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 02:04 AM   #230
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Just a few videos from OAKA, PAO homeground but I'll find from SEF too, (Olympiacos)







EDIT: Olympiacos in SEF


The fact is that this is found nowhere in Europe, dare I say, nowhere in the world?
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Old May 25th, 2009, 04:03 AM   #231
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About the above videos, very strange to see such a huge differences between a match in the euroleague and a match in the NBA (is it actually allowed to make such a noise + flags etc... in the NBA? ). I guess the basketball supporters in Europe just took over the atmosphere from football into basketball games. Such an atmosphere makes it all the more special tho. And it's probably one of the main reasons for the growing popularity of the euroleague, the same intense atmosphere like in football games.

Btw, for the 1 or 2 Greeks/Serbians which say the NBA teams in Europe should be in Greece/Spain/Turkey/Balkan etc... I don't think you really understand the concept of franchise. The NBA choses teams purely based on the population of the cities, the purchase power, etc... thats why only big teams in the USA got an NBA team. If NBA teams would come to Europe (probably 4) than those teams would be a franchise too. They won't take a euroleague team in it, they will create franchises in the biggest cities of Europe and those with the highest purchase power and fanbase. Yes the popularity of the game is in Greece, Spain, Turkey, etc... but the money and the 'image' of the city would be more worth if it would be in cities Paris/London/Madrid/Berlin. Franchise is all about money so they would only chose Paris/London etc.. Having an NBA team would automatically increase the interest in those cities, so more money.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the euroleague further develops it's own league, just like the MLS in football/soccer in the US.

Btw, it's sad to see that the Chinese only care for the best teams in the world, in both basket and football/soccer. Instead of developing their own basketball league like Europe do and the US do for football, no, they only care about the NBA. Only because the NBA got all the stars, luckily europeans can at least develop their own basketball league and at the same time enjoy the NBA too.
Also they only support the best teams or the teams that got a chinese player in, quite sad (pathetic is maybe too harsh to say) if you ask me but ok.

Last edited by Fizmo1337; May 25th, 2009 at 05:16 AM.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #232
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i dont know why some people talk about sizes of markets and about cities size??? it is not important, if london has 10 M people, and Zagreb 1 M or Belgrade 2 M, whole city cant fit in one arena, so if there is 15000 arena, it will be filled no matter where is it situated, Zagreb or London, Belgrade or Paris.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 04:37 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizmo1337 View Post
Btw, for the 1 or 2 Greeks/Serbians which say the NBA teams in Europe should be in Greece/Spain/Turkey/Balkan etc... I don't think you really understand the concept of franchise. The NBA choses teams purely based on the population of the cities, the purchase power, etc... thats why only big teams in the USA got an NBA team. If NBA teams would come to Europe (probably 4) than those teams would be a franchise too. They won't take a euroleague team in it, they will create franchises in the biggest cities of Europe and those with the highest purchase power and fanbase. Yes the popularity of the game is in Greece, Spain, Turkey, etc... but the money and the 'image' of the city would be more worth if it would be in cities Paris/London/Madrid/Berlin. Franchise is all about money so they would only chose Paris/London etc.. Having an NBA team would automatically increase the interest in those cities, so more money.
Yes,we understand the concept of franchise,that is not problem her.In Europa,basketball and basket clubs is not always about money.Simply, that is not european basketball.
If you try to make NBA Europa without old and popular european clubs....dont exist minimal chance to succeed,no way .
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Old May 25th, 2009, 06:29 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizmo1337 View Post
About the above videos, very strange to see such a huge differences between a match in the euroleague and a match in the NBA (is it actually allowed to make such a noise + flags etc... in the NBA? ). I guess the basketball supporters in Europe just took over the atmosphere from football into basketball games.
Large banners that obstruct the view of other spectators generally aren't allowed in American professional sporting venues (college may be different). And the tickets are so damn expensive that the NBA crowds tend to consist largely of wine-and-cheesers instead of die-hard fans until the playoffs (or a marquee matchup like, say the Spurs and Cavs).

And yeah, the ultras don't just show up for football, they go balls-to-the-wall for ALL of their athletic clubs' sports (hell, even freaking ***water polo***--I shit you not).

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Old May 25th, 2009, 07:40 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Livno80101 View Post
i dont know why some people talk about sizes of markets and about cities size??? it is not important, if london has 10 M people, and Zagreb 1 M or Belgrade 2 M, whole city cant fit in one arena, so if there is 15000 arena, it will be filled no matter where is it situated, Zagreb or London, Belgrade or Paris.
Only a small part of the money they earn comes from selling tickets. Just like in football, TV contracts, selling shirts, sponsors, etc... bring much more money in then selling tickets. Also the tickets they would sell for NBA franchises in Europe would be more or less as high as in the NBA (200$ or how much it is). I don't think many Balkan or Turkish people would want to pay 200$ for a basketball game (eh? ). That's what the NBA knows too so they want big western european cities like Paris or London as an NBA team with millions of fans (not only the city but the whole country) which are quite rich. They would pay a lot of money to see an NBA game or buy shirts from the big teams and the NBA would earn much more money from teams like Paris or London then from a Balkan team. Also an American rather want to play Paris then a noname Balkan team, it's also a prestige thing.

Let me be clear, I don't like it either. I only wanted to explain it to you guys because some of you didn't understand why they would chose Paris above a Balkan team

Give me the european style competitions with a lot of atmoshpere and quite cheap tickets anyday above the franchise stuff where they want to squeeze as much money out of the fans as possible.

@ KingmanIII
thx for the info

Quote:
Yes,we understand the concept of franchise,that is not problem her.In Europa,basketball and basket clubs is not always about money.Simply, that is not european basketball.
If you try to make NBA Europa without old and popular european clubs....dont exist minimal chance to succeed,no way .
I don't know if they will succeed. Maybe. UK and France got each 60 million fans with a high average income. If 2 or 3% of the people have interest in basket, it's already much more interesting for the NBA to create a franchise in those countries then in the balkan. Also because those cities get a team in the NBA (which is quite prestigieus) I guess quite a lot of (new) people would get interest in the sport.

I agree with the rest though and I hope it won't happen either.

btw I wasn't having a dig at the NBA but I guess it's fine the way it is

Last edited by Fizmo1337; May 25th, 2009 at 10:59 PM.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 09:21 PM   #236
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Are some people here confused? It is all about the money if its a European division of the NBA...and division of an American based league.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 11:36 PM   #237
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NBA europe is not a good idea. EBA (European Basketball Association) is a better idea. Every year we open at the same time and we each have our own regular season and play offs until the conferences finals but then you merge the competitions with NBA and EBA for a start! The Champ is the champ in both league! Then with Basketball getting bigger and better in South America and Asia you open the system to SABA and ABA. Same basic principle but the winner takes it all with a final four reuniting the four continental champs. Here you go! See no need for a frakkin NBA Europe! what Basketball needs is a WBA title!
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Old May 26th, 2009, 12:00 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neda Say View Post
NBA europe is not a good idea. EBA (European Basketball Association) is a better idea. Every year we open at the same time and we each have our own regular season and play offs until the conferences finals but then you merge the competitions with NBA and EBA for a start! The Champ is the champ in both league! Then with Basketball getting bigger and better in South America and Asia you open the system to SABA and ABA. Same basic principle but the winner takes it all with a final four reuniting the four continental champs. Here you go! See no need for a frakkin NBA Europe! what Basketball needs is a WBA title!
I don't think the NBA wants to be 'just one of the 4' big basketball associations in the world.
The NBA will undoubtly have the most money and the best players so it won't be a real competition anyway and I doubt they are gonna share their (best) players with different organizations. It will only happen when it's under the name/organisation of the NBA so they still got the power to decide things and I don't think the euroleague wants that.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 12:04 AM   #239
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I'm actually quite interested in what the position/attitude of the NBA is towards the euroleague. Do they create franchises in Europe to damage the euroleague in order to become the dominant force in basketball or do they support the euroleague because they increase the profile and popularity of basket across Europe?

Now that I think of it, wouldn't it be possible that both the NBA and euroleague could co-exist in Europe? NBA Europe would only count 4 teams and most of those franchises would be in Western Europe where not many (high profile) basketball teams are located anyway. If London, Paris, Berlin and another city would be those 4 NBA teams it wouldn't interfere with the euroleague because most of those teams come from Turkey, Greece, Spain, Russia, Balkan, Lithuania, etc...
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Old May 26th, 2009, 01:15 AM   #240
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Give me the european style competitions with a lot of atmoshpere and quite cheap tickets anyday above the franchise stuff where they want to squeeze as much money out of the fans as possible.

I know why they would pick Paris or London, but they are not interested in basketball (Englishmen)

I am also against NBA in Europe, because we in Europe have better and more interesting game throughout whole season long. just look at the F4 recently held in Berlin or finishing of championships across Europe, like OLY-PAO in Greece or CIBONA-ZADAR in Croatia or PARTIZAN-CRVENA ZVEZDA in Serbia. in those three countries fans made best basketball atmosphere in world, and that is what is important, what makes european basketball better than american
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