Question about Hungarian Peoples Origins

[Cosmin]

Originally Posted by parazitus

mongolia

look at this hungarian handball player, Agneş Horniac :
http://www.gyorietokc.hu/csapat/hornyak-agnes/24/

Catch up on your genetics please.

[blogen_]

Originally Posted by ban Bank

Hornyák simply means ’highlander’ (slovak: horal; croat: gornjak /gornyák/).

Maga a szó hegylakót jelent, vagy csak a hegylakókat nevezik így? Nem mindegy, például a palóc nevet a magas hegységektől délre, a dombos vidéken lakókra is használták, megkülönböztetve őket, miközben maga a név a polovec névre megy vissza, aminek a jelentése (fakó, sárga) azonos a kumán szó jelentésével, ami a kunok népneve.

She was born in Mátészalka where the Tirpaks lives (tirpák = slovak settler in Szabolcs county from the Békés county and partially from Upper Hungary /XVIII cent./).

Ősei valószínűleg azok közé tartozhatnak, akik Liptó vármegyéből érkeztek, a tirpákok jelentős részének a vezetékneve a származási helyére utal.

[blogen_]

Originally Posted by Cosmin

Catch up on your genetics please.

Hey, this funny guy, he called one old european: mongol.

Learned it at least: the baltid not mongoloid, but borealised pure white east-cromagnonid type.

Typical east-baltid:


His eye indigenous biological adaption to the snowy landscape. The principle same with this.

[ban Bank]

Originally Posted by blogen_

miközben maga a név a polovec névre megy vissza, aminek a jelentése (fakó, sárga) azonos a kumán szó jelentésével, ami a kunok népneve.

Számomra nem kérdéses a palócok kun származtatása, nemcsak a népnév miatt, hanem a türk eredetű folklórjuk okán sem.
Nem is értem mi alapján próbálják egyes szlovák tudósok az ő korpuszukba sorolni őket. Talán csak az "á-zós" kiejtés az egyetlen támpont, de az a magyarokra is jellemző, keletre a Vágtól.

[venom6]

A Dunaharaszti és Vecsés között kijelölt új M0 autópálya-szakasz nyomvonalán egy jelentős avarkori temető sírjait tárták fel a Budapesti Történeti Múzeum régészei Horváth M. Attila vezetésével.

A lelőhely a Gyáli patak mentén, egy homokdomb északkeleti lejtőjén húzodik, ahol az intézmény Ős-, és Népvándorlás kori Osztályának munkatársai 6000 négyzetméternyi területen végeztek feltárásokat. A két egymástól elkülönülő, jól körülhatárolható egységet alkotó sírcsoportból álló avar temető mintegy 170 sírját tárták fel.

A feltárt sírok szinte mindegyike bolygatott volt. A bolygatások rendszerint a felsőtestet, a koponya környékét vagy a deréktájat érintették, nem volt ritka azonban a sírok teljes felbolygatása sem.

A sírokból előkerült maradványok alapján bizonyosnak mondható, hogy a rablásokra nem sokkal a temetkezések után kerülhetett sor. A megmaradt, és regisztrálható beásásokból, és falenyomatokból további információkat nyerhetnek a régészek a temetkezési szokásokról, és a sírszerkezetekről.

Képek és további infók:
http://index.hu/tudomany/tortenelem/...m0_epitesekor/

[Anton Dmitriev]

I going to trip to Hungary and I hope I`ll like it!=)

[Karaborsa]

the difference between Bulgars and Magyars are that Magyars did kept their identity and their culture and Bulgars didnt or dont want.

the word bulgar is still used in Uyghuristan (china) for "mixing/mixed" and a 7th century arab historicus cites this too that "Bulgars are made up of Turkic and slavic people".

Also many balkan historicus deny or dont mention that Byzantians called what actually todays transylvania as "Turchia" in the middle ages, while there whasnt any Turkic kingdom there.

[blogen_]

The first Bulgarian state got organized on a Danube plain with steppe majority, the Byzantines eliminated this, the second state gets organized on a highland area with slav majority. The Hungarian state preserved the rule above the plain, because of this we speak now in Hungarian.

First bulgarian state on plain:


Second bulgarian state on mountainous area:

[AnonymvsBeaver]

Seems like there's an interesting discussion on the previous page that I don't understand
The present-day Bulgarians have three major elements: Bulgarian, Slavic, and Thracian. At different periods of our history we've highlighted the Slavic and Bulgarian elements, but it may actually turn out that we have a lot more Thracian than we thought we did.

Originally Posted by blogen_

The hornyák, the hungarian name of the northwestern slovaks (Trecsény, Árva, Turóc county). In Slovak: horal, polish: goral. Maybe slav tribal name origin. The woman dominant baltid and maybe little brünn cromagnonid and nordid admixture, tipical central-european slav.

Have you studied physical anthropology?

[blogen_]

Originally Posted by AnonymvsBeaver

Have you studied physical anthropology?

No, but everybody who interested the Hungarian prehistory learns it. Of course the eastbaltid so much characteristic Slav type, that strange, if it is not recognised.

[Karaborsa]

Originally Posted by blogen_

The first Bulgarian state got organized on a Danube plain with steppe majority, the Byzantines eliminated this, the second state gets organized on a highland area with slav majority. The Hungarian state preserved the rule above the plain, because of this we speak now in Hungarian.

todays hungarian you speak differs very much you spoke in 7-11th century (Also Turkish), the runic script that was "written" that time by hungarians was Turkic. Now you speak just a variation of the hungarian you spoke that time maybe. Discussed this very much with an Hungarian historian in a historical forum few years ago.


If we come to the Bulgarians, they where mixed. The higher class (rulers) where made up of Turkic people (states a arabian traveller, forgot his name). Still are many Bulgarians who ignore this fact, then why any other Bulgarian today isnt called Arpad - Kubrat - kanasubigin, Khan, Tarkan etc etc Because these are Turkic names and not slavic.

Also during battle of Malazgirt the pechenegs (who where recruted from the bulgarians back then by the byzantines) didnt fought against the Seljuqs, because they saw they are actually the same people and turned their sigth against the byzantines.

Anyway just my two cents.

[NeMiroff]

I think, mostly of todays Hungarian nation have a Slavic origin but influency of the Magyars had bigger and stronger than Slavic and these Slavs was assimilated by Magyars, but i dont' know why are toponyms in Hunagry have a really liitle percent of Slavic origin, for example, in Romania, where had influency of Slavs big are toponyms in some regions mostly of Slavic origin..

[blogen_]

Originally Posted by FERENC919

I think, mostly of todays Hungarian nation have a Slavic origin but influency of the Magyars had bigger and stronger than Slavic and these Slavs was assimilated by Magyars, but i dont' know why are toponyms in Hunagry have a really liitle percent of Slavic origin, for example, in Romania, where had influency of Slavs big are toponyms in some regions mostly of Slavic origin..

This here the toponymy+archeology map:


And the same map in coloured (Eastern Hungary):



Magyar horse burials from Carpathian basin:



Some examples: the 10-11th century Hungarian populations archaeological legacy on the area of present Slovakia:

Magyar burials and graveyards:


Magyar pottery cauldron artifacts (the magyars used it alone):


Magyar dugout cottages:



The 10-11th century Hungarian populations archaeological legacy on the area of present Transylvania:

Magyar burials and graveyards:


Magyar pottery cauldron artifacts:



So the plains and the bigger valleys were with Hungarian majority, and the magyar population boom was added to this, after we settled down totally. If we compare these maps, with the 15th century maps, we find it out where with a Slav origin the Hungarian population.

Mostly magyar population with Slav origin in the 15th century:

[blogen_]

Originally Posted by Karaborsa

todays hungarian you speak differs very much you spoke in 7-11th century (Also Turkish), the runic script that was "written" that time by hungarians was Turkic. Now you speak just a variation of the hungarian you spoke that time maybe. Discussed this very much with an Hungarian historian in a historical forum few years ago.

There is not a fundamental difference, a contemporary Hungarian would understand it. This a 12th century Hungarian text:

original:
Volék sirolm tudotlon.
Sirolmol sepedik,
Búol oszuk, epedek.

today's version:
Valék siralom tudatlan,
Most siralom sebez,
Bú gyötör, epeszt.

original:
Választ világumtuul –
Zsidou, fiodumtuul
Ézes ürümemtüül.

today's version:
Választ világomtól
Zsidó, fiamtól,
Édes örömemtől.

original:
Ó én ézes urodum,
Eggyen igy fiodum!
Sirou anyá teküncsed,
Búábeleül kinyuhhad!

today's version:
Ó, én édes Uram,
Egyetlen egy fiam,
Síró anyát tekintsed,
bújából kivonjad!

etc. All magyars understands it. And the Hungarian and the Turkish runic script not identical, the Hungarian implies the Hungarian vowels and the signs differ:

hungarian:


turkic:

If we come to the Bulgarians, they where mixed. The higher class (rulers) where made up of Turkic people (states a arabian traveller, forgot his name). Still are many Bulgarians who ignore this fact, then why any other Bulgarian today isnt called Arpad - Kubrat - kanasubigin, Khan, Tarkan etc etc Because these are Turkic names and not slavic.

The Hungarian elite spoke in Hungarian, the turkish names were trendy between the Hungarians. And the Árpád name for example with a Hungarian origin, árpa = barley + d = hungarian diminutive.

Also during battle of Malazgirt the pechenegs (who where recruted from the bulgarians back then by the byzantines) didnt fought against the Seljuqs, because they saw they are actually the same people and turned their sigth against the byzantines.

Something was trouble there with the soldier's pay...

[NeMiroff]

blogen, thanks

[Karaborsa]

Originally Posted by blogen_

There is not a fundamental difference, a contemporary Hungarian would understand it. This a 12th century Hungarian text:

original:
Volék sirolm tudotlon.
Sirolmol sepedik,
Búol oszuk, epedek.

today's version:
Valék siralom tudatlan,
Most siralom sebez,
Bú gyötör, epeszt.

original:
Választ világumtuul –
Zsidou, fiodumtuul
Ézes ürümemtüül.

today's version:
Választ világomtól
Zsidó, fiamtól,
Édes örömemtől.

original:
Ó én ézes urodum,
Eggyen igy fiodum!
Sirou anyá teküncsed,
Búábeleül kinyuhhad!

today's version:
Ó, én édes Uram,
Egyetlen egy fiam,
Síró anyát tekintsed,
bújából kivonjad!

etc. All magyars understands it.

I was talking about 7-11th century for magyar language.

And the Hungarian and the Turkish runic script not identical, the Hungarian implies the Hungarian vowels and the signs differ:

hungarian:


turkic:

This you should ask it at allempires.net for further explanations, im not a such expert in linguistics.

The Hungarian elite spoke in Hungarian, the turkish names were trendy between the Hungarians.

I was talking about Bulgarians in the 6-7th century, not Hungarians.

And the Árpád name for example with a Hungarian origin, árpa = barley + d = hungarian diminutive.

How interestingly Arpa has the same meaning in Turkish as it is in Hungarian ==> barley. The name arpad is still used as a name in central asian Turkic countrys and Turkey.

just read this thread; http://www.allempires.net/forum/dist...pic124013.html

[blogen_]

Originally Posted by Karaborsa

I was talking about 7-11th century for magyar language.

The 9th century Hungarian language did not differ significantly from the 12th century language. The turkish and alanian effect was considerable, but we spoke in Hungarian.

The historical linguistics eras:


An Example on English language:

present text:
We would not understand many words in a 9th century hungarian text, but we would understand the language.

ancient hungarian text (the today's Hungarian would understand this much):
We ?????* noto plunge** ???* ?????* ini a 9th century hungariana texte, butu we ?????* plunge** the language.

*word not used today
**the meaning of the word changed
+terminal vowel

We would understand it with little practice.

How interestingly Arpa has the same meaning in Turkish as it is in Hungarian ==> barley. The name arpad is still used as a name in central asian Turkic countrys and Turkey.

The barley word with a Turkish origin, but the diminutive suffix Hungarian: Árpád. Because of this Hungarian name, we created it. I am glad that the Turkishs use it, we use the name of the turkish Attila. Turanism cool!

[Jünyus Brütüs]

It's interesting that Anatolians(or East Mediterraneans) and Slavs(or Central Europeans) discuss Turanism

[blogen_]

Originally Posted by Jünyus Brütüs

It's interesting that Anatolians(or East Mediterraneans) and Slavs(or Central Europeans) discuss Turanism

The Central Europeans are not Slavs, the Slavs are Central Europeans! More punctually the western and the southern Slavs, withdrawing the Poles. Possibly the 10-25% of Hungarians has Slav ancestors. But the turanism not is a ethnical idea, this is a political ideology.

[tersyxus]

/off: Bocs, a csipkelődésért, a létigét néha tedd ki ha angolul írsz, úgy könnyebben érthetővé válnak a külföldiek számára is ezek a tényfeltáró hozzászólások...