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Old June 24th, 2013, 05:42 AM   #221
markfos
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AlekseyVT, you have ancient data for tramcars both in Warsaw and Gdańsk.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 09:47 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markfos View Post
AlekseyVT, you have ancient data for tramcars both in Warsaw and Gdańsk.
This data is not mine, this is data from one popular site (as I see, there are some Polish forumers who writes and making photos for Transphoto). So, if you have time and desire, you can help them to update this information. I sure that your information will be very welcomed.

Also, I can't fully agree with you that old or obsolete models = bad. Even in some developed countries and prosperous cities, you can meet many old tramcars which operates very good (of course, in condition of regular maintance and necessary modification). I recommend you to visit such cities as Vienna, Prague, Porto as example. Of course, it doesn't mean that it's necessary to use such models during century, without replacing of rolling stock with new models. But it also doesn't mean that it's necessary to get rid of such models as soon as possible.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 10:30 AM   #223
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I agree some old trams are very nice if they are well maintained, you can find beatuful examples in Kraków and Poznań as well.

Poznań









Kraków












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Last edited by markfos; June 24th, 2013 at 10:51 AM.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #224
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http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/u...esa-trams.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railway Gazette International
Moscow to get 120 Pesa trams
24 June 2013

RUSSIA: Polish rolling stock supplier Pesa is to supply 120 trams to Moscow in co-operation with Uraltransmash, with delivery due to take place between March 2014 and March 2015. The value of the order has not been disclosed. The deal replaces an agreement with a consortium of Bombardier and Uralvagonzavod announced in December and subsequently cancelled.

According to the tender specification, the low-floor trams will be between 25 m and 30 m long and have a capacity of between 175 and 225 passengers. They will be equipped with satellite location based on the Russian Glonass system.

This represents Pesa’s second order from Russia, following a €4·5m contract awarded late last year to deliver three three-section Swing trams for the metre-gauge network in Kaliningrad. It follows export orders to Szeged, Cluj-Napoca and Sofia, and Pesa is in advanced talks with Yekaterinburg. Domestically, the Upper Silesian conurbation, of which the largest city is Katowice, is set to join seven Polish cities to have Pesa trams in operation
It all make sense now - Uralvagonzavod won the tender, and it can supply anything that meets tech requirments.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
It's general problem connected with dense Moscow traffic rather than problem of rolling stock. The buying of new rolling stock itself can not solve this problem.
No this is a problem of your lack of organisation and general attitide to law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
What means "not reliable"? How many tramcars were out of service during your trip?
Half of the trips were failed due to not working trams. Like: no voltage, failed pantographs, no trams at all... One day I waited about 2 hours for a tram at Baumanskaja. Finally i decided to walk to Komsomolskaja and during this walk I did not see any trams in my direction. Great transport!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
About ancient tramcars - as it was written, Moscow tramcars carries 5% of urban passenger traffic comparing with 56% in Metro (how many Polish cities has Metro systems, by the way?).
How many cities in Poland have 9 milion of people? It is matter of scale. Anyway metro is also based on old Wagonmash - so you can say about paying attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
That's why city authorities don't gave a lot of attention to renovation of tram rolling stock till recent times. Even in Poland, where replacing of tram rolling stock was started few years ago, you can find a lot of ancient tramcars even comparing with Moscow ones (Tatra T3s and KTM-19s).
KTM-19 modern? Do you think if you change back and front you have modern tram?
Polish trams are good enough for Moscow because they are modern and cheaper that Bombardier or Siemens. I'm travelling a lot through Germany and I can not see big difference betweren some of Combino, Flexity or CAF trams and polish Pesa or Solaris. It is matter of time when Germany will buy Polish trams like they are buying Polish buses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
...
All of these trams are more advanced in sense of technology than your KTM. And your statistics from transphoto.ru are mainly out of date cause there is not too many people from Poland. It is better to find statistics on Polish sites or ask here.

Last edited by outage; June 24th, 2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 05:09 PM   #226
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http://top.rbc.ru/economics/24/06/2013/863156.shtml


Uraltransmash+Bombardier+PESA

Google translate:
The representative of the Uralvagonzavod told RBC that to fulfill all the parameters of the contract, the factory and serving as its main partner of the Canadian company Bombardier are attracted to the creation of a tram and other partners, including PESA. According to the representative Uralvagonzavod the Polish company, as opposed to Bombardier, already has a tram for Russia.
However, he stressed that the strategic partner of the corporation is Bombardier, with which Uralvagonzavod intends to participate in the competition for the supply of cars for the Moscow Metro.

Last edited by petersgriff; June 24th, 2013 at 05:15 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #227
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May be, it's mean that participation of PESA will be limited by manufacturing and supplying of bogies (as I wrote before, Bombardier had problems with production of these details)?
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Old June 24th, 2013, 09:07 PM   #228
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Quote:
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It is matter of time when Germany will buy Polish trams like they are buying Polish buses..
Jena and Brunschweig have already bought Polish trams.



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Old June 24th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #229
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I think it's time to rename this thread into POLAND | Surface Public Transport.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
May be, it's mean that participation of PESA will be limited by manufacturing and supplying of bogies (as I wrote before, Bombardier had problems with production of these details)?
I don't know.
It is very likely that in 2014-15 in Moscow there will tram PESA (?Swing?) but Bombardier+UVZ continue development the of the new tram on the future.

P.S. if won Alstom - new trams would be delivered to Moscow in this year
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Old June 24th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
May be, it's mean that participation of PESA will be limited by manufacturing and supplying of bogies (as I wrote before, Bombardier had problems with production of these details)?
According to gossips, it would be 100% PESA model.
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Old June 25th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outage View Post

Half of the trips were failed due to not working trams. Like: no voltage, failed pantographs, no trams at all... One day I waited about 2 hours for a tram at Baumanskaja. Finally i decided to walk to Komsomolskaja and during this walk I did not see any trams in my direction. Great transport!

Aren't you a bit exaggerating here? I had to use tram in Moscow for several years , never had any bad experience with it. Including these like no voltage and failed pantographs. Really, it's hard to believe in what you say. The only real problem may be is the cars parking on rails and thus stopping the tram traffic.
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Old June 25th, 2013, 12:46 PM   #233
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June 22, 2013. The new 71-623-02 tramcar №5605 at the Stromynka Street. It will replace 71-608 tramcars (left):

Guaglione

June 22, 2013. The tramline at the Stromynka Street:

Александр Гришин

June 23, 2013. The restoring of tramline at the Volokolamsk Highway:

Сипугин Кирилл
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Old June 25th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
June 22, 2013. The new 71-623-02 tramcar №5605 at the Stromynka Street. It will replace 71-608 tramcars (left):

Guaglione
Explain me one thing. What is purpose of concrete surface under the tracks when no buses and no trolleys are running on it? Shortcut for rich?
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Old June 25th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #235
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Well, the NPO Kosmos, a constructor of adjacent monstrous "Sokol" interchange, was given premision to disrupt tram service for 3 month, but it seems someone in private talks informed them, that tram, as "outdated" and "inneficient" would be removed from Moscow in near future anyway, so they decided they shouldn't restore tram service, and now the servise to Sokol area disrupted for 3 years.
But during this time, Moscow goverment changed, and the new anti-jam programs included modernisation and expansion of tram network, as well there were a number of complains both from residents and local deputies, so NPO Kosmos was forced to restore tram according to the contract, even if with 2+ year overdue. The only problem - previously, Kosmos, in thear blind belief, acted like tram is never gonna be restored, so they put lot of lightweight and shallow comunication tubes (for cables, water and etc.) under the former tram ROW, so now they can't build a full scale tramway track over it, not without digging all that stuff and burring it again in a proper (for classic tramway track) depth and manner.
So they forced to use a BKV panels, developed in 70s (or was that early 80s?) in Hungary to reduce load on bridges - the entire track are much lighter than classical one, but that also come in cost of more regular and expensive maintence (not sure about the later, so if there any professionals, or maybe a knowing fan, feel free to correct me about maintice cost and cycles of BKV-panel track -vs- classic balast-sleepers-rails track).
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Old June 25th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #236
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Update - oops, you was asking about Stromynka, not Volokamsk highway, well, AFAIK, it used to be a mixed use lane, but it was converted to separate tram ROW lately.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:34 PM   #237
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Quote:
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Explain me one thing. What is purpose of concrete surface under the tracks when no buses and no trolleys are running on it? Shortcut for rich?
These concrete lines are also made for emergency cars.

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Old June 27th, 2013, 07:23 AM   #238
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After Solaris and Pesa, 3rd Polish company NEWAG is to produce it's own tramcars -"Nevelo" . 2 days ago it had its premierre in Kraków
So in coming years you might have even more offers from Poland .




Last edited by markfos; June 27th, 2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 09:44 AM   #239
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Dear Polish forumers,

I'm very glad for Kraków, Jena, Braunschweig and other cities where decided to order Polish-made production. But let me to remind you that this thread is named MOSCOW | Surface Public Transport, it's not about public transport in other wonderful cities. That's why I propose to discuss project for Moscow only in this thread (after it will be presented for public), not all Polish-made tramcars.

Thanks for understanding.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 09:48 AM   #240
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Ok, sorry , no more Polish trams here from me .
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