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Old June 27th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #241
_Night City Dream_
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Very nice Polish trams, indeed, they deserve to run in Moscow.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #242
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By the way, does PESA have a wide body tram model for Russian gauge or this will be new model?
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Old June 27th, 2013, 10:31 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
Dear Polish forumers,

I'm very glad for Kraków, Jena, Braunschweig and other cities where decided to order Polish-made production. But let me to remind you that this thread is named MOSCOW | Surface Public Transport, it's not about public transport in other wonderful cities. That's why I propose to discuss project for Moscow only in this thread (after it will be presented for public), not all Polish-made tramcars.

Thanks for understanding.
Agreed, please keep to topic everyone.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 05:27 AM   #244
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Why not present here?

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http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=8872









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Old June 28th, 2013, 05:51 AM   #245
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Why Twist not Swing? Twist was designed for smaller cities after all.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 07:23 AM   #246
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Why Twist not Swing? Twist was designed for smaller cities after all.
Yes, it is very sad.
I think it is connected with conditions of Moscow competition of 2012 (that already it is impossible to cancel) - i.e. only 3 bogie.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 01:15 PM   #247
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Yes, it is very sad.
I think it is connected with conditions of Moscow competition of 2012 (that already it is impossible to cancel) - i.e. only 3 bogie.
That is nice. Moscow - city with about 9 milion people buys trams with length from province - 26 meters.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 01:38 PM   #248
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That is nice. Moscow - city with about 9 milion people buys trams with length from province - 26 meters.
Is it so difficult to understand that tram can be major kind of transport in provincial Polish cities, but passenger traffic at the routes of Moscow Tram is relatively low? For many people, tram serves only for the trips from home or workplace to the nearest Metro station.

As you correctly mentioned - "different scales, different priorities".

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How many cities in Poland have 9 milion of people? It is matter of scale.
The population of Moscow is about 12 million people (and it's only official number of registered residents - real numbers are about in 1.3-1.5 higher), to be exact.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #249
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Actually, first batch of trams will be used on route 17 and passenger traffic on this route is quite high.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 02:05 PM   #250
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Quote:
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That is nice. Moscow - city with about 9 milion people buys trams with length from province - 26 meters.
Hm, inappropriate irony.
1) Mostram has share 5% in system of Public transport of Moscow (for 2007, or 230mln passengers in 2009).
2) Mosmetro has share 56% in system of Public transport of Moscow (for 2010, or 2.464 billion passengers in 2012), metro has 188 stations and will be built 72 new stations to 2020.
3) Moscow has no experience of section-trams (only one Tatra KT3R). It is the first experience.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 03:10 PM   #251
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Well, if Moscow decided to buy Polish Pesa trams, its weird they chose Twist trams instead of Swing, which is obviously the better tramcar for the big city like Moscow.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #252
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Well, if Moscow decided to buy Polish Pesa trams, its weird they chose Twist trams instead of Swing, which is obviously the better tramcar for the big city like Moscow.
Again - is the first experience. Let's hope that it not the last purchase
P.S. de-iure Moscow bought trams from Uraltransmash.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 08:32 PM   #253
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I hope this articulated trams can be used in trains. A 26 m long tram is nothing for Moscow, if they really want to load this kind of PT and facilitate getting around.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petersgriff View Post
Hm, inappropriate irony.
1) Mostram has share 5% in system of Public transport of Moscow (for 2007, or 230mln passengers in 2009).
2) Mosmetro has share 56% in system of Public transport of Moscow (for 2010, or 2.464 billion passengers in 2012), metro has 188 stations and will be built 72 new stations to 2020.
3) Moscow has no experience of section-trams (only one Tatra KT3R). It is the first experience.
Your tram service is a kind of joke. You never know how long you will wait for tram and how long journey will take. It possible that 500 meters you will take in one or two hours - thats reason almost nobody use it. Stuck in traffic jam, no voltage, broken pantograph even third party collision - 100 ways to break trams service. Metro is reliable and fast, trams are slow and unreliable - that is difference. But I can see that your managers don't want to improve it.
Exception is routes to Strogino and others like 30. But it suffers from crowd - Moscow needs longer trams and separate tram corridors - for example like T2, T3 etc. in Paris.

About KT3... Some time ago we laugh at this situation:
http://phototrans.net/14,245022,0,Tatra_KT3R_2255.html
Mosgorstrans bought low entry tram with low floor section but it is forbidden to take into this section directly - you have to climb into high floor section and go down into low floor section. That was stoopid.

What about KTM-30? Lost in traffic?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 03:54 AM   #255
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Quote:
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But I can see that your managers don't want to improve it.
bingo!
This main thing. Not to change yet it, no ultra-modern trams will be able to help.

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What about KTM-30? Lost in traffic?
I don't know. I from Petersburg.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 04:14 AM   #256
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P.S. outage, I don't understand that you want. You think that we, petersgriff or AlekseyVT, are representatives of Government of Moscow and directs of system of Moscow Public transport? No, it not so, you know it. Then why here these morals from you?
Sorry for my english.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outage View Post
Your tram service is a kind of joke. You never know how long you will wait for tram and how long journey will take. It possible that 500 meters you will take in one or two hours - thats reason almost nobody use it. Stuck in traffic jam, no voltage, broken pantograph even third party collision - 100 ways to break trams service.
Are you telling that this can't happen to Pesa trams in Moscow?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 09:22 AM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outage View Post
Your tram service is a kind of joke. You never know how long you will wait for tram and how long journey will take. It possible that 500 meters you will take in one or two hours - thats reason almost nobody use it. Stuck in traffic jam, no voltage, broken pantograph even third party collision - 100 ways to break trams service. Metro is reliable and fast, trams are slow and unreliable - that is difference. But I can see that your managers don't want to improve it.
Exception is routes to Strogino and others like 30. But it suffers from crowd - Moscow needs longer trams and separate tram corridors - for example like T2, T3 etc. in Paris.

About KT3... Some time ago we laugh at this situation:
http://phototrans.net/14,245022,0,Tatra_KT3R_2255.html
Mosgorstrans bought low entry tram with low floor section but it is forbidden to take into this section directly - you have to climb into high floor section and go down into low floor section. That was stoopid.

What about KTM-30? Lost in traffic?

This kind of constant moralizing really keeps on nerves and thus being not very content with future Polish trams because it will include too much excessive noise from the Poles. If the trams were French, Canadian, Czech, German or other countries, I am sure there would be nothing like this. About broken pantographs and no voltage - you are clearly lying here.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #259
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What about KTM-30? Lost in traffic?
KTM-30 was prototype tramcar. After passenger operation in 2008-2010, there was discovered many disadvantages. As a result, the serial production of this model was never started. Nowadays prototype tramcar stays in depot without operation.

June 25, 2013. Krasnopresnenskoye tram depot №3:

Никита Лапин
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Old June 29th, 2013, 12:32 PM   #260
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Please remember that you started to complain in this tone:
"Peeesa - why not Bombardier, Poland is backward... why we did not buy Bombardier... etc".

I'm just trying to realize you that PESA is good enough for you. Afterthat I revealed my opinion about length of new tram and you said something like "it is not needed". And I said why...

About blackouts and break in services. How can I prove? I have some photos but how can I take photo of not arriving tram so that is not all.

What about this project?
http://www.moscowlrt.ru/primary.html

It looks nice but It needs fleet with minimum 45meters long, average speed 30km/h and interval about 5 minutes.
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