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Old October 11th, 2009, 12:18 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russianpride View Post
This is ZIU trolleybus. Most of them are out of service now.
Really? The stream of them near the Sokolniki metro station at all hours seemed nearly endless when I was there.

Didn't get to ride any unfortunately but did get photos still on my computer. Route 32 is the one I got most shots of.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 08:46 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Once I take some pics, I'll definitely show it. Scratches and especially damages are not worked out well. I've already said about the painting quality. Just compare it with what happens to the busses in Europe, for example, they way they are painted. In Moscow, it's not the case, unfortunately. They use low-cost diluted, usually not-for-vehicles-oriented paint which can be used only for wooden fences.

There IS corrosion, believe me. Usually you can see it on the edge of the wing, above the wheel, and of course, on the doors. And by the way, corrosion develops also after damages because of bad maintenance.

And, speaking about damages due to accidents for example... Just come to Kutuzovsly avenue which is considered to be one of the most prestigious and luxurious avenues of Moscow and have a look on the buses that run there. Rusty, crooked bumpers, very badly, carelessly painted even up to the windows - and so on.

I understand being proud of Russia but that's surely not the line.

Still, we don't have pictures of those corrosion-stricken, rusty and dilapidated trams, trolleybuses and buses you saw that much in Moscow. Maybe you confused another Russian city with Moscow because really there are many unpleasant-looking vehicles even in Saint Petersburg, let alone other Russian cities or maybe everything you have told is just a barefaced fib?
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Old October 18th, 2009, 08:54 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L2 View Post
Really? The stream of them near the Sokolniki metro station at all hours seemed nearly endless when I was there.

Didn't get to ride any unfortunately but did get photos still on my computer. Route 32 is the one I got most shots of.
There are more than 1600 trolleybus vehicles in Moscow and almost 98 percent of them were old ZiU models as far ago as 2002, right now ZIU models are less than a third of all the trolleybuses and it means there are less than 400 of them and it means that more than a 1000 of tham were discarded.

And Moscow has the biggest amount of trolleybuses and trams that are in service in the whole world
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Old October 19th, 2009, 02:04 AM   #124
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How many did you mean by the biggest amount of trams?
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Old October 19th, 2009, 04:02 PM   #125
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[QUOTE=Petr;44819654]
How many did you mean by the biggest amount of trams?[/QUOTE

there are a little less than a 1000 tram cars in Moscow and to say the truth this is the public transport I like most in Moscow because there are almost no drab cars and all cars look well-tended.
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Old October 19th, 2009, 06:38 PM   #126
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1000 is not that much. In Warsaw which is a few times smaller than Moscow, but where trams are still main mean of public transport, there is 850 cars with control cab in service. Judging by the pics unlike in Moscow, in Warsaw over 90% of cars are formed in double sets.
Trams are great supplement to subway, and those western cities which completely withdrew trams made a huge mistake. On small distance going by tram is much more pleasant and effective than use of subway. Separate lanes for trams need also much less place than lanes for buses. Trams are more capacious and more stable than buses. Finally they have much longer vitality.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 03:34 AM   #127
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trams were mainly replaced by buses.

as of 2009
http://mos.ru/?documentId=120736

buses (city state owned operator only included)
5528 cars
6155km of route length
612 routes

trolleys
1658 cars
970km of route length
103 routes

trams
919 cars
436km of routh length
43 routes
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Old October 20th, 2009, 03:40 AM   #128
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^warsaw is also a much smaller city than moscow. as such, trams are more effective both because of the smaller distances, and because there generally would be fewer vehicles that compete for road space. that said, warsaw, moscow and basically all the former eastern block nations built highly effective transport networks.

it's hard to convey, but there ideally should be an inverse correlation between tramway reliance and population size. and larger cities with trams should generally have faster, higher capacity, grade separated rail transport too.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 01:16 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coth View Post
trams were mainly replaced by buses.

as of 2009
http://mos.ru/?documentId=120736

buses (city state owned operator only included)
5528 cars
6155km of route length
612 routes

trolleys
1658 cars
970km of route length
103 routes

trams
919 cars
436km of routh length
43 routes
The main difference makes metro. In Warsaw construction of the second line will began next year. Moscow has 12 lines.
When it comes to buses in Warsaw there is 1776 cars in service.
http://www.przegubowiec.com/fakty/bus/ilo-tot.htm
We don't have trolleys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
^warsaw is also a much smaller city than moscow. as such, trams are more effective both because of the smaller distances, and because there generally would be fewer vehicles that compete for road space. that said, warsaw, moscow and basically all the former eastern block nations built highly effective transport networks.

it's hard to convey, but there ideally should be an inverse correlation between tramway reliance and population size. and larger cities with trams should generally have faster, higher capacity, grade separated rail transport too.
In Warsaw bus lines are developed constantly. Also, they want to open trial metrobus line (operating on separate lane, subway frequency). But Warsaw has ambitious plans of constructing new separate tram lines and upgrading old ones as well. City ordered 186 new trams. EU founds are helpful, because according to the EU policy rail transport is preferred.
Communists in Poland unlike in other countries of the block neglected construction of subway. In cities of Warsaw size and even more of Moscow size trams can perform only supplement function to subway (Porto like LTR is borderline case). Buses are good for far suburbs and other less dense areas. They demand more space than trams in relation to their capacity. Without separate lanes, standing in traffic jams they are not attractive for potential users. Public transport in urban areas must be frequent, comfortable, easy accessible, and faster than cars standing traffic jams to be competitive. On small distance accessibility is a key factor, like speed on big distance.
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Old November 1st, 2009, 08:25 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coth View Post
trams were mainly replaced by buses.

as of 2009
http://mos.ru/?documentId=120736

buses (city state owned operator only included)
5528 cars
6155km of route length
612 routes

trolleys
1658 cars
970km of route length
103 routes

trams
919 cars
436km of routh length
43 routes

Does that mean there are duplications in route number assignment? A route 28 trolley-bus, a route 28 motor bus, and a route 28 tram?
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Old November 1st, 2009, 08:26 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coth View Post
mm, water shortage in public transport?

I mean Moscow city as a whole, does she have water shortage issue?
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Old November 1st, 2009, 09:48 PM   #132
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yes, all types have independent numbering

no, thereis no water shortage. volga is large enough for most of russia's largest cities, including moscow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_River
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Old May 18th, 2010, 11:19 AM   #133
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On Victory Day some buses and trolleybuses were carrying a special livery dedicated to the II World War and the Victory of the Soviet Union. As I understand, the livery then would be dismantled.

You can see they all are differently decorated.

Some pics:

Фотографии в альбоме «9 мая 2010 года - День Победы» night-city-dream на Яндекс.Фотках



[more]
























































































































Some Bonus:







09.05.2010.
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Old July 31st, 2010, 02:31 PM   #134
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In Moscow some stops were decorated by interesting ads of Coca Cola. As you know, we've had over +33...+35 since mid-June. So, a stop like this looks like an oasis in a desert:


Посмотреть на Яндекс.Фотках
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Old July 31st, 2010, 03:35 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
+33...+35

yesterday was +38.. i saw it on central telegraph building thermometer.


well.. those bus stations with decoration are not our saviors
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Old July 31st, 2010, 05:42 PM   #136
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Yeah but it looks quite fresh.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 10:35 PM   #137
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Several new bus and trolley models taken by Quantum REX. Those will make a main part of future orders.
http://metroblog.ru/post/3395/


























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Old February 1st, 2011, 01:54 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warden987 View Post
Still, we don't have pictures of those corrosion-stricken, rusty and dilapidated trams, trolleybuses and buses you saw that much in Moscow. Maybe you confused another Russian city with Moscow because really there are many unpleasant-looking vehicles even in Saint Petersburg, let alone other Russian cities or maybe everything you have told is just a barefaced fib?
No, I meant Moscow. I am sorry to have forgotten about this, as soon as I have time I will. By the way as I can see, over the last several months Moscow has got a decent amount of new buses, the old ones being write-offs.

but there are still lots of not so old trolleybuses, which are in a bad condition. I promise to take pictures.

Now, for foreign users I'd like to tell that Moscow has a lot of non-articulated buses like this (usually some 14 - 16 m long):


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Old February 2nd, 2011, 03:21 AM   #139
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Cheap Belarussian MAZ built on truck chassis. Widest turn radius in the industry. Moscow needs to stop buying buses from dictators.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 12:40 PM   #140
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What truck chassis are you talking about if it is a completely lower-floor bus? Why are you talking about some dictators? Lack of personal mind or what?
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