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Old January 20th, 2009, 02:50 PM   #1
Golan Trevize
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SPAIN / PORTUGAL - FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022 bid

So that yesterday they sign an agreement to bid for the 2018/2022 World Cup , here is the topic to discuss what stadiums they might use:

Portugal

Estádio da Luz - Lisbon - 65 000





Estádio do Dragão - Porto - 50 000





Estádio Alvalade - Lisbon - 50 000





Estádio Axa - Braga - 30 000 (+ 10 000 temporary seats)





Estádio do Algarve - Faro/Loulé - 30 000 (+10 000 temporary seats)






Spain

Camp Nou - Barcelona - 106 000





Santiago Bernabeu - Madrid - 80 000





Nuevo Mestalla - Valencia - 75 000




La Peineta - Madrid - 73 500




La Cartuja - Sevilla - 72 000





San Mames - Bilbao - 56 000




Nueva Romareda - Zaragoza - 42 500



Last edited by Golan Trevize; January 21st, 2009 at 01:27 PM.
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Old January 20th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #2
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nice pics

I read that only 1 stadium in Lisboa will be in the bid?
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Old January 20th, 2009, 10:58 PM   #3
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I can´t see the pics either.

The Nou Camp capacity is 98.934

I´m happy that Spain and Portugal go together for this bid. Finally this two countries do something together.
Even though I think that Spain alone could have done it. I think we have a big chance of getting the world cup.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 02:40 AM   #4
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Ufff what a nice bid.. i would definitely go to that worldcup..
nice countries, nice stadiums plus one of them speaks my language..
I am there!!
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Old January 21st, 2009, 01:04 PM   #5
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Strange, I can see the pics, i will fix it. The capacity for Camp Nou takes in account the planned renovation.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 04:04 PM   #6
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It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).

In Spain, these ones will be in the bid for sure:

- Camp Nou (Barcelona, 98,000+expansion)
- Santiago Bernabéu (Madrid, 80,000)
- Nou Mestalla (Valencia, 73,000)
- Estadio Olímpico (Madrid, 73,000)
- Nuevo San Mamés (Bilbao, 58,000)
- Ruiz de Lopera / Sanchez Pizjuan (Sevilla,55,000-65,000)
- Nueva Romareda (Zaragoza, 43,000)

So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).

La Coruña could be a good option. Deportivo has an old 35,000 stadium and they have been trying to reach a deal with the City Council to build a new one. A WC would be a perfect excuse for that and this way we would cover the region of NW Spain.

Malaga is also a good choice since it's the sixth largest Spanish city. They have just made important work in their small stadium (29,000) but the club seems to be growing after facing some financial problems. It would cover SE Spain.

Murcia (SE Spain, 7th largest city) and Palma (Balearic Islands, 8th largest city) could be less likely options. Murcia built a 33,000 stadium in 2006 but I am not sure if it could be expanded. Mallorca wanted to build a new 40,000new stadium but the team is not in good shape and current crisis hasn't helped the project.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 04:24 PM   #7
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Perhaps this could be the start of a new era in the relations between the two countries. Personally I think that this bid has all the ingredients to be successful!
I'm guessing that the Alvalade stadium would be left out in that case seeing as Spain would be hosting 8 stadiums due to its larger size.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 04:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).

So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).
Spain invited Portugal for this, Portugal accepted. But i don't see the bid going forward if those two situation don't happen.


Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening.
It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.


The other problem is the two Lisbon stadiums. Like we all know portuguese football it's all about 3 clubs: Benfica, Sporting and Porto. A football competition in the country without the participation of the 3 clubs it's almost impossible.
And besides that, it would mean that 2 more stadiums (instead of one) would need works for temporary seats. At this point, with the economic crises the country is living, i don't see suport from the government to accept that. The government only accept the offer because it wouldn't have almost any costs, they can easly change their mind.

Portugal's stadiums
Luz (opening)
Alvalade
Dragão
Braga (it's possible they choose Algarve just because of the tourism. I think Braga would be better)
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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle92 View Post
Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening.
It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.
Yeah, it's a strange requirement and it may be just a rumour, but it has been in the press these days. I don't support it either.

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The other problem is the two Lisbon stadiums. Like we all know portuguese football it's all about 3 clubs: Benfica, Sporting and Porto. A football competition in the country without the participation of the 3 clubs it's almost impossible.
And besides that, it would mean that 2 more stadiums (instead of one) would need works for temporary seats. At this point, with the economic crises the country is living, i don't see suport from the government to accept that. The government only accept the offer because it wouldn't have almost any costs, they can easly change their mind.
I wouldn't really mind having 2 stadiums in Lisbon since it would mean the Spanish host cities would cover a larger part of the country but I don't think it will happen. Madrid offers 80,000+73,000 while Lisbon 65,000+50,000, so the second choice might weaken the bid.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle92 View Post
Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening.
It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.
I guess it's enough to have one. If you're hosting the WC on you're own you can have the opening match on the stadium that can host the final ( France 1998 ) ...and if there's two countries, one of 80k for each of them.

Quote:
It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).

So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).
If Spain also takes the opening match along with the Final I doubt Portugal would accept another condition like letting Madrid have 2 stadiums if they can't also use Alvalade.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:41 PM   #11
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Isnt the minimum capacity 45K for a WC now not 40K? I could see those two smaller portugese stadiums having problems reaching that with temp stands.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
Yeah, it's a strange requirement and it may be just a rumour, but it has been in the press these days. I don't support it either.

I wouldn't really mind having 2 stadiums in Lisbon since it would mean the Spanish host cities would cover a larger part of the country but I don't think it will happen. Madrid offers 80,000+73,000 while Lisbon 65,000+50,000, so the second choice might weaken the bid.

I understand your view, but i think everybody is just talking about stadium sizes and seats. I don't think a WC is just that, and it's very sad if FIFA sees it that way.

We are talking about a join bid. Everybody knows that in terms of stadiums and infrastructures, Spain could do it alone. But they decided to bid with Portugal (probably because FIFA liked the idea).

With that decision, Spain (and FIFA) must know that some adjustments have to be made. If stadium sizes were the only thing that matters, Spain wouldn't invite Portugal, and FIFA would advise Spain to do it alone.

We must not forget that all this people know and talk with each other. I'm sure there were a lot of phone calls between Battler and Angel Villar, before Spain decided to invite Portugal.

Nothing is for free, this spanish decision is for their own good, i'm sure of it. But when they decided this, they knew Spain would loose some games and some importance.

I'm pretty sure the opening will be in Luz, and i also don't see Alvalade out of the bid.




Braga stadium seem very good choice for the 4th place. It would be very easy (and not very expensive) do put 10000 temporary seats in one of the tops (the one without the "stone wall" of course)

That transformation in the Algarve stadium wouldn't be that easy. But it's hard to leave the most tourist area of the country out of the party. Hotels and other tourism infrastructures it's what Algarve has more
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Old January 21st, 2009, 07:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Isnt the minimum capacity 45K for a WC now not 40K? I could see those two smaller portugese stadiums having problems reaching that with temp stands.
In Germany there were 4 stadiums with less then 45k ( between 42k and 44,600 ).
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Old January 21st, 2009, 09:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle92 View Post

We are talking about a join bid. Everybody knows that in terms of stadiums and infrastructures, Spain could do it alone. But they decided to bid with Portugal (probably because FIFA liked the idea).
Actually its most likely that Spain decided to co-host as they had already hosted the World Cup in 1982 which is quite recent compared to other countries bidding. This will give them a better chance of winning as Portugal haven't hosted before. So Spain actually needs Portugal to win IMO. (and FIFA has generally frowned at Joint bids btw)
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Old January 21st, 2009, 09:48 PM   #15
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Yeah, here we go!! Nice to see Spain and Portugal working together al last!
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Old January 21st, 2009, 10:36 PM   #16
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Wasn't the new project for the stadium in Zaragoza 50k?
In Sevilla I would definately choose reformed Sevilla or Betis stadium, not La Cartuja with the tracks. If I remember correctly both projects are 60k+.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 11:15 PM   #17
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Wasn't the new project for the stadium in Zaragoza 50k?
The winner project has 43k with an easy expansion to 50k, but until the club and te City Council reach an agreement there is nothing sure.

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In Sevilla I would definately choose reformed Sevilla or Betis stadium, not La Cartuja with the tracks. If I remember correctly both projects are 60k+.
For sure. I guess none of the stadiums will have tracks,since they will be removed from Estadio Olimpico in 2016 in the worst case.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 12:45 AM   #18
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I doubt that Málaga will be an option, the current stadium can't be expanded and the city council will not pay for a new stadium since they already paid for the renovation of the current.

Perhaps Vigo would be an option, but then they would have to reconstruct the current stadium completely. Another option would be Gijón, the current stadium is to smal and there is plenty of space to expand on.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 04:55 AM   #19
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I think that Vigo is closer to Porto, Braga or La Coruña to be an option, if those are the chosen ones. Málaga could be the best option, but it's needed to build a new stadium, and who will pay it?.

The bests options could be Gijón, but the stadium is very small, Murcia, or José Rico Pérez in Alicante, wich will have a rennovation, and Alicante have more potential visitors than others places.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 02:56 PM   #20
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Perhaps Vigo would be an option, but then they would have to reconstruct the current stadium completely.
I would say La Coruña is the favourite, but Vigo would have a chance if they manage to reach a quick agreement about building a new stadium.

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Another option would be Gijón, the current stadium is to smal and there is plenty of space to expand on.
Public institutions have already spent a lot of money in the club to avoid bankrupcy, so I don't see them investing that much. The only chance would be selling the stadium (located in the most expensive area of the city) and building another one in the outskirts, but now it's not the best moment for real state companies and they plan to expand it next year to ~30,000.

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The bests options could be Gijón, but the stadium is very small, Murcia, or José Rico Pérez in Alicante, wich will have a rennovation, and Alicante have more potential visitors than others places.
IMO Alicante is too close to Valencia and their best club is too tiny to be a real contender.
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