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Greater Manchester Transport Projects Transport Matters For Greater Manchester and Surrounding Areas



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Old August 13th, 2005, 03:49 PM   #1
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Manchester's Roads and Motorways

With all thease big buildings going to built etc, do any of you think there will any more new roads built in the city centre etc to hold more cars? If so, do you think the council should leave some room for new roads? (eg - widening)


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Old August 13th, 2005, 03:52 PM   #2
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I think the tram expansion should be given the priority. Followed by trains. Then the roads should be looked at. Can't see many (if any) new roads being built, just widening of existing one's.
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Old August 13th, 2005, 04:52 PM   #3
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I don't think any widening of roads in central Manchester will happen. They've spent the last umpteen years narrowing and calming them. The Inner Ring Road was the answer to all traffic problems, and even that's got a capacity problem at peak times.

Public transport is the only real solution to help Manchester's roads. Metrolink extensions first, and then Manchester's heavy rail network needs serious attention. The local transport plan (www.gmltp.co.uk) recognises this, and has called for this under-utilised resource to be unlocked (as they put it).

Unfortunately, there isn't the money, nor the political will to do this at the moment. There is the money for grandiose schemes in the South East of England, however. We'll just have to wait another 20 years.
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Old August 13th, 2005, 04:58 PM   #4
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Manchester's road situation doesnt seem to bad. They could add a couple of new dual carrigeways going to north Manchester to relieve traffic on Cheetham Hill and Great Ancoats Street. There is plenty of wasteland to run them on.
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Old August 16th, 2005, 12:48 AM   #5
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I agree the traffic at the bottom of Oldham Road is realy bad on some days.
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Old August 16th, 2005, 11:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongeman
Unfortunately, there isn't the money, nor the political will to do this at the moment. There is the money for grandiose schemes in the South East of England, however. We'll just have to wait another 20 years.
And the London Olympics is only going to makes things worse.
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Old August 16th, 2005, 01:14 PM   #7
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Completely unrelated but i love driving over manci way. You get some great views of the city. I'd take some photo's if it weran't for the fear of ending up in the roof of Kro 2
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Old August 16th, 2005, 02:47 PM   #8
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No way will any new roads be built within the inner ring road. The ring road itself is better now its completely finished but I would like to see some more supporting infrastructure feeding into it.
I think we need less roads in central manc and less car parks. Move the car parks to near the inner ring road and demolish the ones in the middle of town. That will reduce congestion. Re-route the free bus things to take in more car parks too and increase frequency. Also, I have felt for some time now that we should Narrow oxford road in town to two lanes at the point it opens out to three lanes. reason is, only two lanes or a single lane ever feeds traffic into it at one time. No queues ever build up. Its pintless and should be narrowed to help pedestrians. Also, I would love to see Elizabeth house gone as well as the odien with that stupid bit of road going the opposite direction to the rest of the traffic re-routed to the back of a new building(s) put in their place. Would make the whole of oxford rd much more ped friendly and get rid of a road currently helping with the disection of St Peters Square by several different routes. Also, and i've said this before, close the road between Town Hall and Town Hall extension and do something about all that town hall on street parking around central lib. It makes the place a mess.
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Old August 16th, 2005, 03:07 PM   #9
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building new roads! widening roads in central manc! r u mad? lol.

dont u mean closing and narrowing roads

all city councils are anti car, double yellow everything and increase parking charges.
invest and waste millions on the metro and mess up traffic even more, that sounds like a great idea say the council transport men. add some bus lanes too, annoy the motorists out of their cars.

Altrimingham metolink? wot a fook mint idea.....not.
who had the clever idea of removing proper trains and putting shitty small trams onto the same rails, so that in rush hour everyones crammed in like sardines.

the ASHTON line, wots the fookin point of running trams down a main road that you can already get a bus on?

No wonder the govt tried to pull the plug, they did the research and came to the conclusion that its not value for money (polite way of saying its a WASTE of money)

but they cant be seen as being anti public transport, so they really have got themselves right in the shit now

well at least Manchester will get some state money heading north.

Underground systems are the only real way to prove fast efficent urban mass public transport.
Ive heard lots of reasons why we cant have it, too expensive, too many old coal mines.
In many US cities, they simply built them under existing roadways, thats why you can often feel building shake specially in lower manhatten.

they used to have trolley buses when my father was a young man. they ripped em all out. now we are puttin em back only with tracks.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 02:26 AM   #10
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It's true that these days city councils are more likely to be hell bent on narrowing roads than widening them - this is happening everywhere as "traffic calming" and "multimodal transport corridor development" is seen to be the trendy thing to do.

The stupid thing about Manchester's Inner Ring Road is the last (Western) section was supposed to be built to a higher standard than it ended up as being....and yet the general consensus was that once it was fully open, this would then take all the through traffic and divert it around the city, with the consequence that all the main routes within this ring would be downgraded / declassified to minor (city centre) roads as in Leeds and Glasgow and Birmingham - but as you can clearly see from the road signage and the maps of the city centre, this clearly hasn't been the case. Thus, as long as the A-roads within this ring still stand as A-roads, most traffic would still be channelled through them - thus causing the congestion you see so much in the centre that causes gridlock at the expense of goods traffic and buses, etc.

Manchester's road network has always been completely chaotic and this will probably never change cos nothing really radical has ever been done to improve it over the decades (save for the M60 outer ring and the aforementioned completion of the inner relief route.)
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Old August 18th, 2005, 10:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasedwar
building new roads! widening roads in central manc! r u mad? lol.

dont u mean closing and narrowing roads

all city councils are anti car, double yellow everything and increase parking charges.
invest and waste millions on the metro and mess up traffic even more, that sounds like a great idea say the council transport men. add some bus lanes too, annoy the motorists out of their cars.

Altrimingham metolink? wot a fook mint idea.....not.
who had the clever idea of removing proper trains and putting shitty small trams onto the same rails, so that in rush hour everyones crammed in like sardines.

the ASHTON line, wots the fookin point of running trams down a main road that you can already get a bus on?

No wonder the govt tried to pull the plug, they did the research and came to the conclusion that its not value for money (polite way of saying its a WASTE of money)

but they cant be seen as being anti public transport, so they really have got themselves right in the shit now

well at least Manchester will get some state money heading north.

Underground systems are the only real way to prove fast efficent urban mass public transport.
Ive heard lots of reasons why we cant have it, too expensive, too many old coal mines.
In many US cities, they simply built them under existing roadways, thats why you can often feel building shake specially in lower manhatten.

they used to have trolley buses when my father was a young man. they ripped em all out. now we are puttin em back only with tracks.
All fair points, but proper funding for the trams would provide a very good public transport system. If there were enough trams on the streets of the city centre and suburbs it would be excellent. Yes, it would be better if they were underground, but even the US/NYC style of putting them just underground would be a huge cost. Replacing (some or many) buses with trams is no bad thing in terms of the environment. I'd much rather see trams on the streets that buses. Maybe that's just me though. I ******* hate buses
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Old August 18th, 2005, 01:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retep68
All fair points, but proper funding for the trams would provide a very good public transport system. If there were enough trams on the streets of the city centre and suburbs it would be excellent. Yes, it would be better if they were underground, but even the US/NYC style of putting them just underground would be a huge cost. Replacing (some or many) buses with trams is no bad thing in terms of the environment. I'd much rather see trams on the streets that buses. Maybe that's just me though. I ******* hate buses

I hate buses too - they really are the pits (especially given the sort of scummy people who increasingly travel on them after a certain time of the day it's just not worth the ******* hassle, but some of us don't have a choice - I will start another thread discussing this soon) - cos in this country there really is NO provision for them to run on time cos of traffic congestion. Paltry little bus lanes here and there that - like cycle lanes - all too often vanish into thin air are not the answer - if anything they just PROVE how ******* half-hearted Britain is about adopting them - compare both of these with, say, Holland, where such lanes are properly provided and run FULL LENGTH throughout the country. As for bus timetables in major conurbation areas - they are a ******* waste of paper and ink - they're totally pointless cos 9 out of 10 buses can never hope to run punctually cos of the way they're constantly being caught up in gridlock and the ever-growing numbers of traffic lights and signal junctions spaced approximately every hundred yards on every main road.

Trams too are practically useless cos in this country they still have to give way to other road traffic - you don't get this on the continent either - ALL TRAMS have right of way in European cities - the only time they need to stop is at the ******* tram stops! Try taking the Metrolink from City centre Manchester to Eccles - have you seen how long it takes? It crawls at an interminable pace through Salford Quays, stopping at every junction where road traffic bisects..... Compare this with the old Liverpool-Manchester railway service to Eccles station - first stop out of Man Victoria (in the old days) - taking a mere 7 minutes back then...but now it's been so downgraded over the years it's not even regarded as a regular train service destination anymore - cos the trams have replaced it! Pah!

If tram systems are going to work, then they must be built and run as something intermediate: better than buses but not quite as fast or direct as heavy rail trains. There is no point making a tram route duplicate the convoluted twists and turns of existing bus routes by calling at every kitchen sink housing estate or scum-infested shithole there is (see Baguley and Wythenshawe on the planned Airport tram route) cos that is just ultimately uneconomical anyway. Tram stops should on average be spaced no less than 500 metres apart - unlike bus stops which are generally closer together - otherwise, in the name of "light rapid transit", how the hell can they expect them to achieve faster "point-to-point" average speeds in this respect? They'd just be as slow as buses already are. It's bollocks this whole UK transport thing, isn't it? None of the authorities really have a clue how to go about it.
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Old August 19th, 2005, 03:03 PM   #13
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It's bollocks this whole UK transport thing, isn't it? None of the authorities really have a clue how to go about it.

well said, spot on!

they have even commited themselves into projects they know will fail, thats the funny thing, or sad reality i suppose.

those baddie nite people u see on the buses, well guest what! they r gunna be on the trams too, silly

basically as i said b4, subway train systems are fookin a million times better than any other public transport system.
Like most things in life, u get wot u pay 4. and undergrounds r simply the dogs bollocks. fast travel speed, no stopping at traffic lights, most reliable (usually to the second)

If manchester wants to be a world class city it needs a subway, lets start a revolution!
how many other top class world cities dont have subways? not many.

wait a minute manc does have a subway, u know when u go down the escalator at piccadilly train station and get a metro, its like wow man, this is proper bo.
u get on and just when ur bum hole is tweekin its fookin daylight, cos ur out in the street. the words shortest underground system lol.

im sorry but bike lanes are a fookin total waste of space. the govt should simply do wots best for the majority not the minority.

A good idea instead of a bus lane, would be to introduce the shared car system that the USA have in some cities. so if theres 2 or more people in a car u can drive in the clear lane.
thats a great idea, give a work colleague a ride to work, that would remove 50% of rush hour traffic. and save the environment.

the different car plate different day system failed flat on its arse. people who could afford it, simple bought a second vehicle so they cud drive to work any day they wanted. a fookin blind man could have forseen that

And the London conjestion charge, i hope to god Man CC doesnt introduce that.
its just gone up again aparently. me finks its £8 a day now, up from £5.
I think that we pay enuf with road tax and the rape on petrol is painful 85% tax. how the fook can any govt justify 85% tax on anything.

it is proven that its more dangerous for pedistrians in central london now, because there are less cars, it has increased the average speed.

i wonder how many people do a u turn on a street to avoid the charge zone. i bet people just drive round the edge, making other areas worse. its obvious.

oh lads, i tell ya, im well into me apple muller rice. i get 1 every day with me BLT + mayo on tomatoe and olive toast. (u can tell i work in sale, u dont get that bread choice in Gorton)

were was i, oh yeah, long live the automobile.

did u know that today's engines are 10 or even 20 times more efficient than 20 or 30 years ago. that means we can have 20 or 30 times as many cars with the same amount of pollution. just fink about it.

the charge doesnt effect the wealthy, its another tax on the working classes.
Do anyone know if council staff have to pay the fee. if they dont i'll be fumin.
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Old August 19th, 2005, 03:18 PM   #14
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i shud av a new sig
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Old August 19th, 2005, 03:25 PM   #15
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Fooking great rant there Chasedwar - and I concur with many of them points - but somehow I can't help but imagine that the voice speaking that sounds exactly like one of them Staines Massive characters so beloved of Ali G......the only thing glaringly missing being the "innit"s??


P.s. Also have to concede that yeah cycle lanes in Briatin are a waste of road paint cos, as I said earlier, if they can't provide a dedicated network countrywide like in the Netherlands that IS SAFE AND PRACTICAL - then don't fooking bother at all. Having them in pathetic dribs and drabs in the most silly places is just pointless. Cos all it does it create more clutter on our already narrow roads!
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Old August 19th, 2005, 03:35 PM   #16
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I find cycle lanes very useful. Loads of people in this town use them, so they just paint more and more (which is good)
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Old August 19th, 2005, 03:59 PM   #17
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Undergrounds are not all they are made out to be.

Slower door to door times, less stations, the general public feel less secure on the stations than outside tram stations.

Virtually anything an underground can do can be done with a tram system, just in this country we don't try hard enough, e.g. the stopping at traffic lights.
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Old August 19th, 2005, 04:25 PM   #18
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Back on topic

I often think it would be nice if thepPedestrianised area that is Market Street continued down to Deansgate, and more importantly all the way up through Picadilly Gardens, up Picadilly, up Station approahc to outside the train station entrance. You could then walk from the train station in pretty much a straight line to the main shopping area of town without encountering a road.

Would be Manchester's own Ramblas.

Never happen, mainly because of buses, but we can dream.
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Old August 19th, 2005, 06:09 PM   #19
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I dont like Market Street very much. I find it to be very claustrophobic. The street continuing down to Deansgate from the food court is pretty nice. Piccadilly is okay too and is getting better all the time.
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Old August 19th, 2005, 06:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chorltonred
I often think it would be nice if thepPedestrianised area that is Market Street continued down to Deansgate, and more importantly all the way up through Picadilly Gardens, up Picadilly, up Station approahc to outside the train station entrance. You could then walk from the train station in pretty much a straight line to the main shopping area of town without encountering a road.

Would be Manchester's own Ramblas.

Never happen, mainly because of buses, but we can dream.

Well the ideal situation - which indeed was mooted at one point - was that, once the inner relief route was open and fully taking all through traffic, all the central main routes and streets within the ring would be restricted if not closed to all cars/trucks etc except for access, deliveries and of course buses. But as we can see, even with the route long open and cars continuing to stream the centre regardless (due to the highways authority's failure to downgrade and redesignate all the city centre main roads) that ambitious dream has all but bit the dust hasn't it? So much for making the city centre more pedestrian friendly then!
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