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Old December 12th, 2006, 10:09 AM   #41
sjwmoore
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The inner London urban motorways (Westway, for instance) have been re classified as A roads. So i presume you can now cycle on them! For some reason "Local Authority Motorways" ie Manc Way are in a different category to national ones, i guess they were the brainchild of the council rather than the Department of Transport or whatever.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 12:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester Planner View Post

I'm sure a road used to dissapear into thin air there. It looked such a mess. Now it seems to have magically dissapeared and by replaced by a giant letter 'M' with a picture on it.

No matter how hard I look the dead end road seems to have vanished into thin air. did the magical mystery council pixes throw some sparkles on it and make it vanish?
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Old December 12th, 2006, 01:36 PM   #43
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Somebody put me right here but since when has the M60 been known as the orbital, it's the Manchester Outer Ring Road, and orbital motorway would have to go around the whole conurbation like the M25.

I like toll roads, they make for good postcards
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Old December 12th, 2006, 01:44 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Newell View Post
Somebody put me right here but since when has the M60 been known as the orbital, it's the Manchester Outer Ring Road, and orbital motorway would have to go around the whole conurbation like the M25.
Guess where I frist heard it called the Orbital? Manchester Evening News of course. Trust them to misquote!!

A Manchester Orbital would have to be at least twice the radius of the current Mcr Outer Ring Road. One day we may even have a Manchester Inner ring road, completed Intermediate ring road (we only have half of it at the moment - if that), Outer Ring road (M60) and maybe a Manchester Orbital (starting at M56 near the airport and looping around the perimeter of Gtr Manchester - say airport, round stockport to glossop way to meet the M67 on and up around Oldham and Rochdale and on to M66 north of Bury, round Bolton and parallel to M6 in Wigan (to take local traffic off the M6 and back down thru Irlam and Dunham back to the airport)).

Now - how we gonna fund the Manchester orbital motorway???
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Old December 12th, 2006, 01:48 PM   #45
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Indeed Issac, Orbital is is not, as conurbations lie either side of the M60, indeed making it an Outer Ring Road (Since the City Centre one is the Inner Ring Road!)

Our M60 is Much more favourable to something like the M25, as it is so easy for us to travel from one borough to another anywhere in the area, in such a small space of time!

I travel to work from Worsley JCN 13 to just outside the Royton Side of Oldham Town Centre and it takes me 17 minutes!

What other city in the UK can you do that?

Everywhere in Manchester is accessable within 30 mins even if you travel from say Wigan to Stalybridge, which is the longest distance you can have from one side of Gtr Manchester to the other, which is about 25 miles, maybe more.

Our Road system is second to none.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 01:51 PM   #46
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The M60 is what the North Circular wishes it was. And it goes all the way round.

I suppose the M6 and that motorway going through Blackburn could form the basis of an orbital.

Put toll plazas on it.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 03:58 PM   #47
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The much-ridiculed M6 Toll, incidentally, was only going to be one third of what would have been a TRUE orbital motorway to encircle the West Midlands conurbation - in exactly the same way as the M25 currently does. The other sections would have been the existing M42 around the south / south east of the city, and then the - now dropped - Western Orbital Route scheme which would have provided the final "missing link" third arc bypassing the M5 and also acting as a much-needed relief for the desperately inadequate A449 / A491 that runs from Wolverhampton through the west edge of the Black Country through Stourbridge and then ultimately to Bromsgrove and Kidderminster. This road was planned in the mid-80s to complement the then publically-funded Dept of Transport scheme (known previously as the A446(M) / A5(M) Birmingham Northern Relief Road) and would have also been designated with a similarly provisional number in A449(M).

Of course, they HAD to go and complicate things by building this M6 stretch (albeit to a slightly cheaper standarad than a normal "free" UK motorway [just look at those laughably pathetic narrow one-lane slip roads that lead onto them) as a toll road under a private consortium didn't they?

So now we have an orbital route around the Birmingham conurbation that is only two-thirds complete. Typical shortsighted, penny-pinching, infrastructurally-backward Little Britain eh??
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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chogmook View Post


Our Road system is second to none.
Very true indeed - no argument with that. But then that is just the motorway system we're talking about! The main road system itself is a bit of a shambles to be honest - not enough dual carriageways and suchlike - and it still follows basically the very same ad-hoc sprawling and chaotic network of predominantly single-carriageway routes (many of these A roads were simply former B or minor roads that had their numbers redesignated) that just developed over the decades with virtually no new [straight-running and higher standard] highways of any note save the East Lancs Road, the Princess Parkway (originally planned as the M56 extension into the city centre) and the A56 extension towards the Colne Valley that was originally planned as the M66 in its entirety probably.....

Compare this to Liverpool, Birmingham, Newcastle and even Leeds - all of which embarked on extensive post-War widening of many arterial routes into proper bona-fide dual carriageways (and only adding [urban] motorways to their networks at a much later date), and you can see what I am getting at!
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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:26 PM   #49
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Well ccording to Wikipedia...

"The M60 motorway is an orbital motorway which completely encircles Manchester, England.". Might be worth edititng if you believe it is wrong?

and part of the "E20" which links Manchester to St Petersberg
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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:29 PM   #50
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even going by the city of Manchester boundaries, Wythenshawe, Northernden, Sharston etc are all south of the M60.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:42 PM   #51
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Indeed....

but are we just being pedantic?


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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:45 PM   #52
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[QUOTE=spacepostman;10845155]Well ccording to Wikipedia...

"The M60 motorway is an orbital motorway which completely encircles Manchester, England.". Might be worth edititng if you believe it is wrong? /QUOTE]

Unfortunately Space Postie, Wikipedia is an Online Encyclopedia which ANYONE can edit. I.e. You or me... (I have actually written things on there myself.) so you can't always take what your read as 100% truth.

Sorry to piss on your chips...
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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrolink View Post
even going by the city of Manchester boundaries, Wythenshawe, Northernden, Sharston etc are all south of the M60.
True, but then most on Wythenshawe see Northernden and Sharston as part of "Wythenshawe" which as we all know is a funny little place (sat in wythenshawe in my office now). Doesn't really count as it's an overspill
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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:51 PM   #54
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[QUOTE=ScouseinManc;10845453]
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacepostman View Post
Well ccording to Wikipedia...

"The M60 motorway is an orbital motorway which completely encircles Manchester, England.". Might be worth edititng if you believe it is wrong? /QUOTE]

Unfortunately Space Postie, Wikipedia is an Online Encyclopedia which ANYONE can edit. I.e. You or me... (I have actually written things on there myself.) so you can't always take what your read as 100% truth.

Sorry to piss on your chips...
Still I'd hazzard a guess tho wikipedian editor fanatics know what is an orbital motorway and what isn't, espeically when it's all over the article?
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Old December 12th, 2006, 05:01 PM   #55
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[QUOTE=spacepostman;10845554]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScouseinManc View Post

Still I'd hazzard a guess tho wikipedian editor fanatics know what is an orbital motorway and what isn't, espeically when it's all over the article?
Sorry Postie... was not disagreeing with you re. the Orbital Motorway. In fact, I would say it is exactly that; given that you can travel full circle round Mcr (which, I've done many, many times). No, it was more to do with the authenticity of things written on Wikipedia..!
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Old December 12th, 2006, 05:04 PM   #56
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Interesting .... but here we continue nevertheless...

The Paris "Péripherique" is also a true orbital motorway - but how much of the city of Paris lies on the outside of it likewise??

Maybe there has to be a simple designation that if a motorway makes a complete closed circle then it can thus be classed as an orbital motorway. On this front, even the M25 is not technically a "closed" orbital - simply because of the Dartford tunnel / bridge sections which are all-purpose A-routes and not actually 70mph motorway status.

Thus this complicates the idea of what should be a true orbital - the M60 (which was renumbered from three separate motorways anyway) or the M25 - which WAS built as a proper orbital - but then leaves out the tunnel/bridge crossings at Dartford.....?
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147 metres: so is this the height of Birmingham's ambitions? The city surely deserves better. Arena Central / Arena Square / V Building The incredible shrinking tower: 245m --> 187m --> 175m --> 152m --> 150m --> 147m --> 143m --> ???m
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Old December 12th, 2006, 05:07 PM   #57
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Quote:
given that you can travel full circle round Mcr
Have you?

Not on the M60 you haven't - large portions of even the city of Manchester fall outside the M60 - all of Wythenshawe, Sharston etc.

Youb actually have to go quite a bit down (to Wilmslow) to go around the southern side even of city of Manchester.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 09:01 PM   #58
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Yeah, I think some of us are playing with semantics when it comes to this so-called 'true orbital' versus 'outer ring road' comparison.
You can't always get everthing squeezed within the confines of these super-slabs. At the rate that some conurbations grow, at what stage does a 'true orbital' get relegated to a mere 'outer ring road'?
I think there's a bit of highway snobbery going on here!
If I can get around Manchester without having to drive through the CBD, I'm not mithered what they want to call the M60....
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Old December 12th, 2006, 09:09 PM   #59
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http://www.biertijd.com/mediaplayer/...t=true&fs=true Just need some decent drivers now!
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Old December 12th, 2006, 09:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Miles Platting View Post
highway snobbery
That's just too good, give the man a comment of the day award.
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