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Old August 30th, 2010, 03:11 AM   #1461
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Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
All that in response to a point which very much has to do with the bid which has to do with the treatment and compensation of the workers who will actually the things for the ya know, World Cup venues. I wonder which is higher on the relevant meter.
oh my god ?? are you serious ??

who told you that high tech venues will be build by workers in Qatar ??
these contracts will be given to German & Brasilian companies and these companies will bring it is workers to build these venues and if any of these companies violated the terms and the laws of Qatar and human rights in the treatment of workers Qatari courts will take appropriate action against this company.

Last edited by qatarson; August 30th, 2010 at 03:25 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 03:17 AM   #1462
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you failed to notice qatarson posted "before" the no-politics & no-race related post....
The worker treatment problems your claiming is actually their countries problem not ours, for them failing to provide enough jobs for there local populations not to mention helping them financially etc etc.
so what are you on about ?
The better question is what is it you are on about.
He posted what and where? I didn't bring politics into anything. The way the venues are going to get built have very much to do wtih the bid no? Does FIFA that association when journalist and commentators run storys on the depressing matters in which venues were built for the games?

It is Qatarson that went on a worldwide scorched earth geo-political dissertation.
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The worker treatment problems your claiming is actually their countries problem not ours,
Excuse me? So people who live in your nation are not under your jurisdiction? Does that mean they are not subject to your criminal justice system if they break a law? Does that mean you can't deport them either? I am guessing that means that foreign companies aren't subject to any laws and regulations either right because they are "foreigners problems".
The idea that you are not responsible for the standards and regulations of how workers are treated and such issues do not fall under your sovereignty is such a canard that I don't think you can even believe it.
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Thank god Qatar is protecting Human rights and is applying it everywhere in Qatar. we are seeing many places were even the lowest paid worker has all types of amenities, access to clean water, air conditioning due to the heat, sport facilities and soon their own dedicated shopping malls and cinemas. not to mention rooms and living conditions that meet the standards of Human rights.
Many who are not raging nationalist telling themselves lies would disagree with you on that.
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Last edited by nomarandlee; August 30th, 2010 at 08:35 PM.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 03:20 AM   #1463
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http://www.solidaritycenter.org/cont...?contentid=632
For a 12- to 14-hour shift, a worker earns about $120 per month. Low-wage workers frequently complain that employers pay them late or not at all, deny them overtime wages, house them in substandard living quarters with no running water, lure them with false contracts, and refuse to give back their passports at the end of their contract. An Egyptian worker said: “I want to raise my children and educate them so they do not have to suffer like me.”

Earlier this year, in preparation for the 2006 Asian Games, the capital city of Doha was a huge construction site. To meet the opening deadline, workers put in long shifts in the blazing sun. Temperatures regularly topped 100 degrees. More than 60 young Nepali workers, unused to the hot climate, died of heart attacks. Unsafe equipment resulted in more deaths and injuries. The situation is no better for domestic workers, mostly young women, who face physical, emotional, and sexual abuse at the hands of their sponsors.




In your most wild nationalistic dreams.

I wonder how many more construction workers will have to die needlessly for Qatars "grand ambition" while building WC venues.
these foreign companies paid billions for the implementation of these projects and if any company have violated laws the courts withdraw the contract and punish the company and its expulsion from the country and pay for the workers of the value of project insurance, as happened with one of the german companies that not mean there no laws or Qatar allowing this, this happen in any place in world there who contrary the law and this can even happen to any citizen not just workers and courts its doors open to all and this not your business or work of FIFA.

Last edited by qatarson; August 30th, 2010 at 03:53 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 04:42 AM   #1464
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I think we have spoke enough about construction workers and courts... time to switch issues, anyone one to bring up the next one ??
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Old August 30th, 2010, 04:50 AM   #1465
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Originally Posted by qatarson View Post
these foreign companies paid billions for the implementation of these projects and if any company have violated laws the courts withdraw the contract and punish the company and its expulsion from the country and pay for the workers of the value of project insurance.
You guys take passing the buck to the extreme.

I suppose its the Germans, Indians, Sri Lankans, and British who are responsible for not having a minimum wage, not allowing unions, not signing or abiding by ILO conventions.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 06:36 AM   #1466
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Originally Posted by Qatar Son 333 View Post
Fail, the alcohol subject has been solved, there will be alcohol served during the 2022 world cup. but drugs, prostitution etc will not be tolerated at all, if such incidents occur, there will be arrests.
I said Alcohol not prostitution or drugs as prostitution and drugs are already rampant in QATAR already Hahahahahaha
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Old August 30th, 2010, 08:32 AM   #1467
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Wow, Qatar Son 333 & qatarson get off your high-horse and face the facts. Your country is not important in the 'football world'. All you've ever done is produced a dick who has run the AFC to the ground.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 09:35 AM   #1468
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I think we have spoke enough about construction workers and courts... time to switch issues, anyone one to bring up the next one ??
The problem is that this is a crux issue and personaly the main point in why Qatar should not be allowed to host the WC.

Idealy we would all avoid politics and if this were a thread on a specific stadium, it probably wouldn't be so relevent. This thread is about the Qatar bid for the 2022 FIFA WC which by its very nature in intrinsically Political. We can't have a thorough and rigorous debate without it.

The construction labour and domestic servants situation may be a sensitive topic but needs to be fully explored to expose the merits and validity of the Qatari claims for the bid. An Australian (I think he was) stated that the refugee issue in Australia is sensitive, well it is (but clearly not on the level of the Construction issue) but not discussing it in the context of the Australian bid (if a conflict is seen) to me is a cop out so if a Qatari would like to raise it on the Australian 2022 WC thread or pm me I'm happy to discuss it.

I do agree with "nomarandlee" and he seems far more eloquent than me. What happens in Qatar and others in the Gulf region is tantamount to state condoned Human trafficing (with associated racism).
A brief definition is:
1. and Action (recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring, or reception of persons)
2. through means of (thread or use of force, coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, abuse of power or vulnerability, or giving payments or benefits to a person in control of the victim)
3.Goals (for exploitatrion or the purpose of exploitation, which includes exploiting the position of others, other forms of sexual exploitation, forced labour or services, slavery or similar practices, and the removal of organs).
4. One element of each of the above must be present for trafficking to occur
Aronowitz, A. 2009. "Human Trafficing, Human Misery: The Global Trade in Human Beings". Praeger, West Port, Connecticut. pg 1 , 96-97.

It is not in Qatar's interest to properly prosecute these crimes as any change in the status quo that is more inline with democratic standards and institutions would see a skyrocking in construction pay, full freedom of movement and simple avenues to permanent residency and citizenship. Qatar can't grow at its current rate and in an ethical manner without stripping the locals of their privileged positions and forcing a true multicultural society rather than one with barriers and gestures at arms length.

Some may claim that it's a non issue as the like of the USSR, China and Yugoslavia have hosted the Olympics and other brutal regimes have hosted the World Cup like Junta ruled Argentina. Well FIFA has the luxury to choose from a number of other bidders that won't give them such controversial headaches. Also with Qatar being such a small nation it is far easier to "turn the ship" in the right direction that it is for Russia or China. The Qatari's can do that and in far less time than the former but they won't while they want everything now and are prepared to openly exploit others to satify their egos.

So this isn't a small issue. It is as large as the logistical, technical and infrastructure challenges that Qatar faces which the other bids don't have to worry about. I'm sorry for the heavy handed nature of my post but I truly believe this is a very important issue which shouldn't be swept conveniently under the carpet. I do not believe that Qatari's are evil or callous to the suffering of others but they should ask more from and about their government and social system than simply tow the nationalist line.

Last edited by Walbanger; August 30th, 2010 at 09:49 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 10:04 AM   #1469
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Originally Posted by Solopop View Post
Wow, Qatar Son 333 & qatarson get off your high-horse and face the facts. Your country is not important in the 'football world'. All you've ever done is produced a dick who has run the AFC to the ground.
solopop or any other person if you don't like Qatar bid or have reservations about this bid it is your personal view and don't asking me or Qatar son 333 to adopt your thoughts there millions and governments and media backing this bid and we are part of these supporters and we trust in our bid file.

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Originally Posted by Solopop View Post
Your country is not important in the 'football world'.
Because my country is not important in football so FIFA awarded Qatar the right to host many championships more than your country and excluded Australia bid for AFC CUP 2011 and give the host right to Qatar in fact am very impressed by the achievements of your country compared with this not important small country you are realy rock.

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All you've ever done is produced a dick who has run the AFC to the ground.
lets Australia produce a ( finger ) then come back talk about him that guy leading AFC for twice in a row till this day.

Last edited by qatarson; August 30th, 2010 at 10:24 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 10:52 AM   #1470
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Originally Posted by Walbanger View Post
So this isn't a small issue. It is as large as the logistical, technical and infrastructure challenges that Qatar faces which the other bids don't have to worry about. I'm sorry for the heavy handed nature of my post but I truly believe this is a very important issue which shouldn't be swept conveniently under the carpet. I do not believe that Qatari's are evil or callous to the suffering of others but they should ask more from and about their government and social system than simply tow the nationalist line.
walbanger if you think Qatar choose to bid for world cup between day and night like some countries this big mistake it was very clear from beginning what Qatar want and they bid only to 2022 while Japan, Korea, Australia, USA wasn't sure what they want and have all pulled out of 2018.

Qatar planing for this since years ago supporting Bin Hamam wasn't coincidence building Asipre zone & Academy, create strong international public relations, infrastructure development continued and many other points already have been addressed previously in this topic.

we don't say Qatar the best and our bid does not have flaws but we have one thing clear from beginning that Qatar working hard to host the world cup as small part of large plan for the next 30 years Qatar working on it.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 10:52 AM   #1471
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^
I'll ignore your first remark because it makes no sense.

The AFC excluded Australia because it had only just joined the AFC, by the way we got 2015.

It's kind of hard to produce a president seeming we only just joined the confederation...

Get your facts right or, GTFO!
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Old August 30th, 2010, 10:59 AM   #1472
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^
I'll ignore your first remark because it makes no sense.

The AFC excluded Australia because it had only just joined the AFC, by the way we got 2015.

It's kind of hard to produce a president seeming we only just joined the confederation...

Get your facts right or, GTFO!
only because just joined AFC !! and other excluded countries was also just joined AFC !!

there was strong competition and Qatar surpassed them all.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:09 AM   #1473
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Originally Posted by qatarson View Post
walbanger if you think Qatar choose to bid for world cup between day and night like some countries this big mistake it was very clear from beginning what Qatar want and they bid only to 2022 while Japan, Korea, Australia, USA wasn't sure what they want and have all pulled out of 2018.
They pulled out of 2018 because it was LATER made clear that 2018 was going to be in continental Europe...

Perhaps Qatar would be better off spending its bid money on education?
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #1474
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Originally Posted by qatarson View Post
we don't say Qatar the best and our bid does not have flaws but we have one thing clear from beginning that Qatar working hard to host the world cup as small part of large plan for the next 30 years Qatar working on it.
Don't you? If you still think you don't say that then I'll go find your old posts where you state that Qatar are the front runners. Don't go off and delete them either.
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Oh sod off.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:13 AM   #1475
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walbanger if you think Qatar choose to bid for world cup between day and night like some countries this big mistake it was very clear from beginning what Qatar want and they bid only to 2022 while Japan, Korea, Australia, USA wasn't sure what they want and have all pulled out of 2018.

Qatar planing for this since years ago supporting Bin Hamam wasn't coincidence building Asipre zone & Academy, create strong international public relations, infrastructure development continued and many other points already have been addressed previously in this topic.

we don't say Qatar the best and our bid does not have flaws but we have one thing clear from beginning that Qatar working hard to host the world cup as small part of large plan for the next 30 years Qatar working on it.
I don't doubt that at all nor did I question it. What I did say is that besides the enormous logistical, technical and infrasturcture mountain Qatar is climbing it chooses to ignore a massive social one which happens to be damaging to its reputation.

The day / night remark. No Nation wakes up one morning and says I'm going to bid for the World Cup. All bidding nations put in years of work in feasibility and spend millions just to bid. If you really believe that other nations are so casual about the bids then you a dangerously underestimating Qatars competitors.

Sometimes I question what Qatari's think when they refer to "International Public Relations". Do you assume that only Qatar is using its PR cloud to help their bid?
Australia, the USA and Japan (don't know about South Korea) have decades worth of goodwill which has come about from excelling at hosting such tornaments. They've all worked international networking down to a fine art.

Last edited by Walbanger; August 30th, 2010 at 11:32 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:25 AM   #1476
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only because just joined AFC !! and other excluded countries was also just joined AFC !!

there was strong competition and Qatar surpassed them all.
Other countries short comings have nothing to do with Australia not getting the 2011 AFC championship.

You know very well that Australia joining the AFC was not universally popular. The AFC was in no mood to be seen pampering the the "New kid on the block". Also I'm not surprised if the Qatari bid was superior to the Australian bid. Australia has a history of testing the waters before it seriously puts its hand up for an event. The AFC championships has next to zero profile in Australia. The Government and the FFA were not willing to out spend Qatar on a bid for a tornament that most Australian's didn't know existed. Once Australia and the AFC has become more familiar with each other then that will change. Still the 2015 bid is going to be functional rather than flashy with games in stadiums around 30 000 and only on the Eastern sea board. What we do know is that Australia brings more legitimacy, solid competition and prestige to the AFC than Qatar ever will and that Australia's AFC bidding history and nature and content of the bid will have no bearing on how Australia has bid for the World Cup which is in another stratosphere to the AFC Championships.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:46 AM   #1477
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Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine View Post
They pulled out of 2018 because it was LATER made clear that 2018 was going to be in continental Europe...

Perhaps Qatar would be better off spending its bid money on education?
Qatar have major plan for next 30 years and cover all fields in education we are spending billions and as country has less than 2 millions population we have education city has currently more than 12 international university with highest rate in spending on research in the middle east and we are planing to run our space program in 2013 plus we have very important goal to bring back All Arab scientists from the West to settle in Qatar.

you can check Qatar foundation site for more information about this sector.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:52 AM   #1478
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Don't you? If you still think you don't say that then I'll go find your old posts where you state that Qatar are the front runners. Don't go off and delete them either.
yeah it is all statistics & reports from media I also posted the power index which show Qatar a top after england.


Last edited by qatarson; August 30th, 2010 at 12:23 PM.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 12:00 PM   #1479
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I don't doubt that at all nor did I question it. What I did say is that besides the enormous logistical, technical and infrasturcture mountain Qatar is climbing it chooses to ignore a massive social one which happens to be damaging to its reputation.

The day / night remark. No Nation wakes up one morning and says I'm going to bid for the World Cup. All bidding nations put in years of work in feasibility and spend millions just to bid. If you really believe that other nations are so casual about the bids then you a dangerously underestimating Qatars competitors.

Sometimes I question what Qatari's think when they refer to "International Public Relations". Do you assume that only Qatar is using its PR cloud to help their bid?
Australia, the USA and Japan (don't know about South Korea) have decades worth of goodwill which has come about from excelling at hosting such tornaments. They've all worked international networking down to a fine art.
well we have come to common ground and let the media and FIFA Assess the bid files and 2nd of december became very close.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 12:23 PM   #1480
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yeah it is all statistics & reports from media I also posted the power index which show Qatar a top and Australia at last position.

I think you might want to change the media that you view...Because that is bull - it doesn't take into account several key factors such as the fact that many countries have had the WC recently. I seriously disagree with Australia's venue plans score as well. But I don't think any of us should take that too seriously.
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Oh sod off.
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