Top 25 Highrise Skylines & Top 25 Historical Skylines

[Metropolitan]

This poll means nothing because statistics are flawed. Moderators have changed the results.

In the old times, when city vs city was strong, it was a national sport on SSC to vote "3 or less" to other cities skylines (something I've always found stupid and I'm glad it's less the case today). When the moderating team has chosen to clean up the mess, they've "cleaned" some polls, but not others. I don't know how exactly it was done. Maybe non registered members could vote before and not later or something this way, but anyway, what is sure is that results have changed.

Let's take few examples about how obvious this is. The British moderator Wjfox decided to remove all the "3 or less" votes to London City poll. As a result, we have:
- 198 votes for "10"
- 13 votes for "3 or less".

However, Paris skyline poll has never been cleaned. As a result, we have:
- 262 votes for "10"
- 148 votes for "3 or less".

That what we call a big difference, isn't it ?

In the same way, the Paris la Défense thread records 212,488 views for only 566 posts. That makes 375 views per post. That is 3 times more than the average which is between 100 and 130 views per post.

I remember that when Wjfox changed the poll results for the London City skyline, the number of views has drastically reduced. I don't know how it used to work but there's something which has been changed for most threads and which never changed for La Défense.

Nowadays, the London City skyline has 46,327 views for 451 posts, which is clearly more in line with the average.

All this to say that it's hard to conclude anything out of the results of polls as long as they've been manipulated in a way or another.

[Major Deegan]

Originally Posted by Metropolitan

When the moderating team has chosen to clean up the mess, they've "cleaned" some polls, but not others.

Have they cleaned some of the #10 votes as well? I'm only counting 10 pt votes.

[Matthieu]

3 or less votes mean balls because they are not counted in the statistics and ranking anyway. Anyway as an admin I don't think it's fair (that is if that did happen of course) for any mod to rig poll results in favour of his city over another, I wouldn't accept it from a French moderator and I don't want other mods to do so too.

[HipHopCanada]

Very surprised Sydney got more votes than Toronto, also how Vancouver is in the top 25 and not Montréal. Montréal is MUCH more historic than Minneapolis, or Melbourne is by a long shot. It was the economic capital of Canada from confederation until the 1960's, also had the highest population.

[DinamiT]

And what about lisbon in the historical skylines? --'

[Major Deegan]

Originally Posted by HipHopCanada

Very surprised Sydney got more votes than Toronto, also how Vancouver is in the top 25 and not Montréal. Montréal is MUCH more historic than Minneapolis, or Melbourne is by a long shot. It was the economic capital of Canada from confederation until the 1960's, also had the highest population.

I guess it is not very well regarded in terms of its skyline(Minneapolis and Vancouver are). We're voting skylines here, remember?

[Major Deegan]

Originally Posted by DinamiT

And what about lisbon in the historical skylines? --'

What about it?

[DinamiT]

I think it deserved to be one of the top Historical skylines --'

[Abdallah K.]

Beirut, Lebanon should have been in the hisotrical skylines..the buldings look new because they have been renovated because of the war..

[Dean]

Originally Posted by HipHopCanada

Very surprised Sydney got more votes than Toronto, also how Vancouver is in the top 25 and not Montréal. Montréal is MUCH more historic than Minneapolis, or Melbourne is by a long shot. It was the economic capital of Canada from confederation until the 1960's, also had the highest population.

..and Montreal has been in decline since the 1970's as well. It's been stagnant for years.

Sure it may have more history than Melbourne, as you say, but Melbourne's skyline is far more impressive, as is Sydney's. Both cities deserve a top 10 spot.

Mighty Melbourne
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

[Looking/Up]

Yeah, I'd have to agree that Melbourne has a nicer skyline that Montreal, though I wouldn't say that Melbourne's skyline is "far" more impressive.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mo...orama_2006.jpg

Montreal's true beauty is found by walking along its streets and discovering the gorgeous mix of the very old and the very modern. Like this:

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/caribb/86503248/sizes/o/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mnirish...45477/sizes/l/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/9571527...59943/sizes/o/

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Looking/Up

Yeah, I'd have to agree that Melbourne has a nicer skyline that Montreal, though I wouldn't say that Melbourne's skyline is "far" more impressive.

Montreal's true beauty is found by walking along its streets and discovering the gorgeous mix of the very old and the very modern. Like this:

'Far' more is perhaps a bit harsh but Melbourne and Sydney are certainly on the same/next level as cities like Toronto etc. after the big 3.

One thing that Melbourne and Montreal have in common is the contrasts in old and new.

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

[Epi]

I think Venice should probably be in the top historical skylines. I mean it was the Manhattan of the 15th century!

[nameless dude]

I would have liked to see the Gold Coast up there. It must have been dragged down by the earlier votes before Q1 and the other iconic towers were built. But now that they are, the skyline is very impressive.

Originally Posted by HipHopCanada

Very surprised Sydney got more votes than Toronto, also how Vancouver is in the top 25 and not Montréal.

What makes you that surprised? Sydney, as you have probably seen in that very popular recent banner, is naturally beautiful; spanning inwards instead of along the waterfront, the shape/sillhouete of the skyline is long and iconic and with the Opera House and the entire harbour complementing it, I personally would place Sydney *at least* on the same level with Toronto. And I personally prefer Vancouver over Montreal too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EoqA...eature=related (Very old video, dates back to 2003 by the looks)

[nameless dude]

Originally Posted by Dean

Mighty Melbourne

image hosted on flickr

Or Massive Melbourne (lol).

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by HipHopCanada

Very surprised Sydney got more votes than Toronto, also how Vancouver is in the top 25 and not Montréal.

Sydney's skyline may be quite a bit smaller than Toronto's, but it's more balanced. The CN Tower has a dwarfing effect on the rest of Toronto's skyline, and the grouping of towers isn't as pleasing from a distance. As Toronto starts to build out along the lakefront, and major towers like AURA, Shangri-La, and 1 Bloor East are built beyond the tightly packed CBD, Toronto's visual balance will improve dramatically.

The 2012 Toronto renders that have been circulating clearly depict the monster skyline that is forming. Toronto just needs to fill in the lakefront, as it is now doing, and develop Yorkville more, which is also happening. The black towers in the second render are buildings approved or under construction. Half of them are nearing completion, and almost all of the rest are going ahead. There are actually a lot of towers missing from that depiction.

[IMG]http://i20.************/e5itmd.jpg[/IMG]




Courtesy of Maldive

Things like the Sydney Opera House, bridge, and harbour bolster the visual appeal of Sydney a great deal. These attributes aren't really skyline qualities, but many people take them into account any way. Likewise, the fame brought to Sydney from hosting the Olympics seems to have had a lasting effect on people's perceptions.

If you look at the number of buildings over 100 metres in each city, it's not even close. Toronto would win handily. On a quantitative basis, Sydney shouldn't rank higher, but this isn't a quantitative measure, is it? Sydney's a fabulous looking city, but Toronto's got scale on its side. The balance to Toronto's skyline is just around the corner. Toronto did score 6th, so it's not as if people haven't noticed.

Likewise, Vancouver's skyline looks fabulously balanced and visually stunning. The setting and mountains skew the rank higher. If you put Vancouver in the middle of the prairie, many people would rank it lower even though they shouldn't.

[sul_mp]

Nice to see Rio and São Paulo in the top 25.

[sul_mp]

Originally Posted by sul_mp

Nice to see Rio and São Paulo in the top 25.

Just them from Latin America.

[nameless dude]

Yes, as a whole, Toronto's skyline is larger than Sydney's, but you can't say that Sydney's lacking in scale. Also, while the skyline of Toronto is sprawled with it's epicentre, ie, the tallest and most notable section of the skyline, at and around the First Canadian Place and the Scotia Plaza, it is arguable that the entire skyline of Sydney is, in fact, it's epicentre. For what it appears to be when it's depicted in traditional view over the harbour, Sydney's skyline is quite lengthy, spanning almost 3 kilometres inwards. You really have be there to appreciate its length.



image hosted on flickr

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The setting of the city has an important impact on the skyline too and it should, by all means, be considered. This is reflected on the fact that people also consider the harbour, Opera House or the Rogers Centre; after all, the setting is where the skyline is situated and people don't just look at just that set of buildings in the skyline and pretend that everything around it's a giant patch of pitch black, well, nothing.

One must also take into account that a skyline is ultimately just a visual landscape. So it is common sense that a good skyline does not neccesarily have to be large. It will have to be attractive in appearance. In general and for the time being, Toronto's skyline has the edge in scale but in terms of balance and the appearance in general, I would give it to Sydney (not saying that Toronto isn't generally attractive). Perhaps this is why Sydney is coming 4th at 43%, placing it comfortably ahead of the competition of 30%s and 20%s starting directly beneath it, including Toronto.

It should also be noted that every city is constantly changing. In Sydney's case, the global financial crisis has slowed its growth on a huge scale, putting on hold projects such as Chatswood's 3 new to-be-tallest towers and Parramatta's Civic Place. However, a number of towers are approved or already under construction to fill gaps and spaces and to improve and enhance the already enviable appearance of the skyline, such as Space, Westfield Tower and the John Boyd Tower.

Forgive me for being unable to find a more recent image but as of 2007, the red buildings are under construction, while the grey and white buildings are approved:

image hosted on flickr

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Now, as you can probably see, the current skyline is already very dense and packed. That's why sites are being developed around the current CBD which will join with the CBD in the future to create an even larger skyline. Examples include Fraser's Broadway at the southern end of the skyline which will consist of 10 new scrapers and the new world-class waterfront precinct of Barangaroo consisting of 11 new scrapers, depicted below:


IIRC, these two projects are scheduled to begin next year.

With these projects, Sydney will not only have that admirable look; given the time, scale will be on its side too. This shot portrays what the skyline might look like in the future (forgive me again for not being able to find a better image):

image hosted on flickr

Originally Posted by isaidso

On a qualitative basis, Sydney shouldn't rank higher, but this isn't a qualitative measure, is it?

Ouch, not so sure here. I personally prefer a smaller cluster of high quality buildings like Seattle over a sea of grey like Baghdad. I'm sure a lot of people will think likewise. Considering Toronto and Sydney and in terms of the context we're dealing with, quality depends on the way you judge and interpret it. I personally think that Syndey has a more modern looking and generally better set of buildings but you can disagree with me if you want to because what I and you can only say about this are mere opinions, not facts.

image hosted on flickr

Originally Posted by isaidso

Likewise, the fame brought to Sydney from hosting the Olympics seems to have had a lasting effect on people's perceptions.

Yes, Sydney has shown the world with a very memorable 2000 Olympics. But hey, do I see an olympic stadium on that skyline. No. So what's the olympics gotta do with the skyline?



And unlike some cities, Sydney really shines at a distance!
image hosted on flickr


With all that said, this is not a city vs city thread so I won't be one sided here. I do agree with many other people that Toronto has an impressive skyline. That's why I put both Sydney and Toronto both at number 3 on my top 10 skyline list if you didn't notice. After all, no matter what the percentage of 10 votes is, Toronto is still at number 6. And as for the future, well, we both have promising projects. But who knows what the future will turn out to be? Perhaps aliens will settle on Earth tommorrow and create a city for all of us to envy. Lol. I hope not.

[Looking/Up]

Thanks Isaidso and Nameless for the well thought-out, measured and calm responses. It is through this manner that productive conversations are possible. Both Canada and Australia both have cities that their respective populations should be incredibly proud of and, as part of countries with relatively very small populations, we show what can be done with strength, determination and ingenuity - we are both countries that punch above our weight in many ways, and our cities show this.

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peopea/2761355633/sizes/l/