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Old February 4th, 2009, 03:40 PM   #281
ARailSystemsEngineer
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As I recall, there was a maglev system operating in Birmingham for some years, from the station at the Exhibition Centre to the Airport; although the ride quality was a bit disappointing and the top speed didn't seem so great, it got you to the airport a lot quicker than the Shanghai system, and it came into the same building as the Main Line Station. Just like the Shanghai system, it did't come anywhere near the town centre, though.

Furthermore, as I recall, it was closed down because it was a proprietary system that couldn't be cost-effectviely maintained.

I imagine there's folks out there that can fill in all the details

I checked on wikepedia, and the above seems more or less accurate...

Rse
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Old February 4th, 2009, 08:15 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
Sorry, I apparently do not know how to post pictures!
Well, you take the URL from a picture "http://www..." and you put it between [IMG] [/IMG].
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Old February 4th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #283
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With the funeral of plans of building a high speed maglev line between Hamburg and Berlin there have been some proposals to implement the technology in other areas in Germany:

- Maglev-express-connection between Munich Central Station and the airport. 37 km, 10 minutes travel time, one train every 10 minutes.
The plan has been abandoned in march 2008. The existing rail connection will be upgraded instead (as far as I know).

- "Metrorapid": Regional express line in the Ruhr Area with the following stops: Dortmund, Bochum, Essen, Mülheim, Duisburg, Düsseldorf Airport, Düsseldorf. Track length 78,9 km (travel time: 37 minutes), Max speed: 300 km/h, one train every 10 minutes.
The plan has been abandoned in 2003. It will not be built as it would be in direct concurrence to the existing network and saves only 10 minutes time in comparison to an ICE.

The funeral of all three projects was also due to too high expected construction costs.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 08:38 PM   #284
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I think they should build the München maglev, it would connect an airport with 50M passangers/year with a railway station wiht 100M passangers/year.
Also, its kind of bavarian-ish to show off like this
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Old February 4th, 2009, 09:09 PM   #285
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I think a Maglev system in a Mass-Transit scenario would definitley have advantages

As noted by lkstrknb, there would be no moving parts etc. As metro trains are constantly starting, stopping, accelerating, decelarating this takes it's toll on the contact areas and moving parts, which would not be an issue with Maglev.

Just because a Maglev CAN reach silly speeds of 500Kph doesn't mean it HAS to

One question I would have is how much energy would a Maglev train require to move it along x-distance in comparison to a 'standard' metro train (of the same weight) with live rails / overhead lines (at the same speed)? I wonder if any of the techy people on here could shed some light on this? I'm guessing it would be more, but the energy expense could be off-set with less need to replace parts?
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Old February 4th, 2009, 10:07 PM   #286
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the real problem with all these new(er) technologies (monorail, maglev) is the lack of interoperability between them and traditional rail-based pt (trams, subways, s-bahns etc)
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Old February 5th, 2009, 03:05 AM   #287
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This didn't stop the Montreal Metro from choosing a train with rubber tires. Paris also chose at least one metro line to have rubber tires.

What really needs to happen is the cost of maglev installations to get less expensive! I have read that once a maglev system is built, it is cheaper to operate than a conventional rail system.

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Old February 5th, 2009, 03:37 AM   #288
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What's the cost advantage though? Will it cost the same as conventional rail to build a 100 km/h maglev vs. a 500 km/h one?
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Old February 5th, 2009, 08:03 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
What's the cost advantage though? Will it cost the same as conventional rail to build a 100 km/h maglev vs. a 500 km/h one?
Definitely! But the difference between a 100km/h rail line and a 300km/h rail line is astronomically different as well, agreed? I have no hard facts, but I'm sure the Linimo maglev in Nagoya Japan is much less expensive per mile to build than the Shanghai China Transrapid maglev.
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Old February 5th, 2009, 08:39 AM   #290
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Going over to Linimo website, the following information can be obtained.

Maximum speed 100Km/h
Maximum acceleration rate 4.0km/h/s
Maximum gradient 7%
Maximum capacity 244 people(3 carts) 43.3M
Power supply DC1,500V

Total opening operation/construction cost aprox. 350Million dollars US
Service distance 8.9Km 9 stations

=Edit=
Looks like the 350Million is only part of the total.
According to wiki the break down is as follows;

Quote:
Construction of the track cost ¥60 billion (US$575 million) while the Linimo trains themselves, built by Nippon Sharyo, cost ¥40.5 billion (US$380 million). The overall construction cost thus came to roughly $100 million per km.
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Old February 5th, 2009, 09:05 PM   #291
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Mag-lev is simply the technology choice.

The Linimo Mag-lev is fundamentally different from High Speed Mag-lev.

It would be like comparing a cessna with a Concorde because they both have rubber wheels, both fly (or used to) and both carry passengers.

Or like comparing LRTs to TGVs because they both move people, use caternary wires and both consist of 3-letter acronyms.

That being said, it would be interesting to see the financial aspect of that system. Mag-lev certainly has its advantages as an urban people mover (quiet, less maintenance).
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Old February 6th, 2009, 07:35 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
Definitely! But the difference between a 100km/h rail line and a 300km/h rail line is astronomically different as well, agreed? I have no hard facts, but I'm sure the Linimo maglev in Nagoya Japan is much less expensive per mile to build than the Shanghai China Transrapid maglev.
Why do you think so?

Quote:
When I read about the technology, it noted a smooth and quiet ride, but when I rode on the short maglev line in Shanghai, it wasn't the smoothest ride and it was exceptionally noisy.
Hey, where did you hear that noise and feel that lack of smooth? I've riddent it, too, and I didn't notice anything of the kind. It was almost absolutely noiseless and very smooth. Are you talking about the line that connects Pudong airport to the City (metro line 2)?

Quote:
For short distance travel, I don't think it's feasible to use maglev. By the time acceleration reaches 500 km/h the train would've passed the next stop already.
If acceleration reaches such a figure, no one will survive, definitely
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Old February 6th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #293
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Quote:
Why do you think so?
I'm not talking about the technology, I'm talking about pure construction costs when it comes to tolerances. Any time you need a train to run faster, the tolerances become more and more severe. This is one of the reasons why high speed rail lines become so expensive to build. An irregularity in the track will be much more noticeable when traveling 300km/h than say a regular subway train maxing out at 100km/h.

Quote:
Hey, where did you hear that noise and feel that lack of smooth? I've riddent it, too, and I didn't notice anything of the kind. It was almost absolutely noiseless and very smooth. Are you talking about the line that connects Pudong airport to the City (metro line 2)?
I've ridden the Shanghai maglev a number of times and I would say the smoothness rivals that of the Korean KTX trains and the Shinkansen. I found it very smooth! (these are the only two conventional high speed systems I've ridden)

On the noise issue, I have found the Shanghai maglev to be a little noisy when running at top speed, 430km/h. It's much quieter in the cabin when only going 300km/h. On future models, they need to take a close look towards soundproofing the cabins more.

Last edited by lkstrknb; February 6th, 2009 at 08:13 PM.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Hey, where did you hear that noise and feel that lack of smooth? I've riddent it, too, and I didn't notice anything of the kind. It was almost absolutely noiseless and very smooth. Are you talking about the line that connects Pudong airport to the City (metro line 2)?
I rode the maglev line from the airport, and it was extremely noisy and not smooth like riding on a cushion of air.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 09:26 PM   #295
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I did the same, and it was absolutely ok from that point.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 11:31 PM   #296
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I'm sure a YouTube video could be found of the ride.

I've heard it was smooth under 300km/h from a friend who went there last year. Approaching 400km/h it was loud and not so smooth.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 06:30 PM   #297
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Sure it was NOT SO smooth and silent AS at a low speed, but on the whole it wasn't absolutely noisy.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 04:00 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
that would probably require speeds above 1000kph to beat/compete with aircraft

a maglev built entirely in a tube, operating in partial vacuum (reducing air resistance) would probably be able to achieve this speed and remain feasible (swissmetro), but i dont think its in the near future
and by that time we might be able to do this:
4000~8000km/h is the kind of speed they talk about for such system.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #299
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4000~8000km/h is the kind of speed they talk about for such system.
what do you mean 'they talk about'

it might very well be possible to achieve these speeds, but at what cost? primarily, it would probably require insane amounts of power, even if it ran in partial vacuum


however... _the_ n1 problem with current rail vs. speed is wind resistance, so running at the SAME speed in vacuum would reduce the cost (power) and therefore make a 500-700-800-1000 kph system _feasible_, and compete with aircraft at the same time

now they might be able to reduce the wind resistance of new trains in the future and keep them pushed onto the track at the same time, but i seriously doubt they will go above 500 kph in regular service, not because its technically impossible but because of the cost of the power and maintenance
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:52 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
what do you mean 'they talk about'

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/articl...tlantic-maglev

oh well, besides feasibility, this doesn't belong to "Urban Transport" but to "Railways" forum.
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