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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:05 AM   #141
Jue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
You sort of EXACTLY proved Jue's point.

You brighten my day. :p

Hello DonQui. Your name sounds familiar... what thread was it that both of us posted a lot in?

Funny how tiger calls me ignorant again. Every nationalistic Chinese poster I have met talks exactly like him. It's almost creepy sometimes, you wonder how they become so fixated on bending the truth.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:11 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
You sort of EXACTLY proved Jue's point.

What's that point?
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:12 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger
What's that point?
That talking to an ignorant person is a waste of time.

Makes me wonder why I didn't get brainwashed growing up in Shanghai, because technically I should have. Patriotic education. 爱国教育。
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:13 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
Funny how tiger calls me ignorant again. Every nationalistic Chinese poster I have met talks exactly like him. It's almost creepy sometimes, you wonder how they become so fixated on bending the truth.
Where did you prove you know well about China?Do you know what's the retirement system of China?
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:14 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
That talking to an ignorant person is a waste of time.

Makes me wonder why I didn't get brainwashed growing up in Shanghai, because technically I should have. Patriotic education. 爱国教育。
The importance is not whether you get brainwashed or not,but everything you know is just raw.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:17 AM   #146
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How long should I wait for the response to a simple question,jue?
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:18 AM   #147
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Yeah,be quick,Google will help you a little bit,but not all.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:22 AM   #148
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If you don't know,tell us what China's medicare system is?Is it different in urban area and in rural area?What's the difference?
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:23 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger
Where did you prove you know well about China?Do you know what's the retirement system of China?
The short answer is: confusing.

The long answer is: the retirement system could become a demographic disaster. There will be 7 retirees for every ten workers by 2050 if current retirement age is sustained. Low fertility rates plus early retirement age (50 for women, 50-60 for men) will offer three choices:

1. Regular payment until collapse
2. Reduced payment
3. Drastically increased retirement age (to 65+ at least) - the Chinese people would love this, as they clamor for more working years.

The retired people I know receive payments ranging from 5000 to 20000 RMB a year. A pittance considering the cost of living in Shanghai these days.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:25 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger
Yeah,be quick,Google will help you a little bit,but not all.
And I suppose the Police Cars thread talked about Chinese retirement systems? Aren't you vain tonight.

Edit:

Quote:
If you don't know,tell us what China's medicare system is?Is it different in urban area and in rural area?What's the difference?
I don't know any numbers for rural areas, aside from that pilot programs are being tested in various areas for new private financing methods. In urban areas 2% of wages are paid towards medical funds. Employers pay around 5% if I remember correctly.

My judgment of China's social security system (note: it lacks official legislation) is that it would be theoretically sound given a normal demographic profile. Indeed, some aspects of it is more advanced than the ailing American system. But there will just be so many old people. :p

Last edited by Jue; June 8th, 2006 at 10:40 AM.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:36 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
The short answer is: confusing.

The long answer is: the retirement system could become a demographic disaster. There will be 7 retirees for every ten workers by 2050 if current retirement age is sustained.
Jue,I asked you what the retirement system of China is!you answered the retirement system could become a demographic disaster.

Quote:
Low fertility rates plus early retirement age (50 for women, 50-60 for men) will offer three choices;
1. Regular payment until collapse
2. Reduced payment
3. Drastically increased retirement age (to 65+ at least) - the Chinese people would love this, as they clamor for more working years.
So we will not talk about Denmark's effort to change the system,obviously you don't know how many systems there are,hence you dont know how many ways China could go.You even didn't tell us what you supposed for Those three choices.Maybe you could ask european forumers whether they'd pick one of those three choices.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:42 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
And I suppose the Police Cars thread talked about Chinese retirement systems? Aren't you vain tonight.
Did my question make you angry?
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:44 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger
Jue,I asked you what the retirement system of China is!you answered the retirement system could become a demographic disaster.
Oh, you wanted numbers? 20% of wages are paid towards the pension fund pool; the pension is at least 15 years; and the pension does not rise above the person's original income. If I am not mistaken, it is also capped at 300% of average local income.

I find it funny how far off topic you have gone, trying to humiliate me. And this is considering I don't even live in China anymore. Should I quiz you about the United States?
Quote:
Did my question make you angry?
No, of course not. I was simply remarking on your impatience. I don't sit here refreshing awaiting your replies, you know.
Quote:
You even didn't tell us what you supposed for Those three choices.Maybe you could ask european forumers whether they'd pick one of those three choices.
Denmark needs to cut back on benefits. China needs to raise retirement age. (though that raises unemployment issues) You wanted a clear answer, how about that? I didn't want a policy debate.

Check back on the older posts. I know how to edit.
Good morning, I'm off for now.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:47 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
I don't know any numbers for rural areas, aside from that pilot programs are being tested in various areas for new private financing methods. In urban areas 2% of wages are paid towards medical funds. Employers pay around 5% if I remember correctly.

My judgment of China's social security system (note: it lacks official legislation) is that it would be theoretically sound given a normal demographic profile. Indeed, some aspects of it is more advanced than the ailing American system. But there will just be so many old people. :p


Seems like you should see this one.

The evolution of China's medicare system
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:50 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger


Seems like you should see this one.

The evolution of China's medicare system


Seems like you should see this one.

http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progd...sia/china.html

I distrust non-scientific papers published within China. Age teaches you to be wary of state influences. Not that 北大 lies - I would never say that - but selective truth is never far from reality. It's like how I would not trust a Bush administration report on American systems.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:54 AM   #156
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Quote:
Oh, you wanted numbers? 20% of wages are paid towards the pension fund pool; the pension is at least 15 years; and the pension does not rise above the person's original income. If I am not mistaken, it is also capped at 300% of average local income.
Seems like you only know some outdated figures.Do you want me to help you to know what China's retirement system is?


Quote:
I find it funny how far off topic you have gone, trying to humiliate me. And this is considering I don't even live in China anymore. Should I quiz you about the United States?
Since you told us you know China so well,so I asked some basic questions.I feel sorry if these questions bothered you.

And I don't live in China now,dude.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:54 AM   #157
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Quote:
Since you told us you know China so well,so I asked some basic questions.I feel sorry if these questions bothered you.
No, not at all. An excited debate is always welcome by my standards. Outdated statistics are just that - outdated. And what I did post wrong, I will learn so in the future as time passes. Just as I hope you will with what you say.

Before I log off, how about a truce?

You're a great poster in all other matters, and we shouldn't spend our time arguing. There's no point in me ridiculing you further and vice versa.

I think this thread should be laid to rest. There isn't any more to be said about the original topic anymore.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 10:58 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue


Seems like you should see this one.

http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progd...sia/china.html
Is there any american forumers think when we want to know something reliable about China,we should read english documents?



Quote:
I distrust non-scientific papers published within China. Age teaches you to be wary of state influences. Not that 北大 lies - I would never say that - but selective truth is never far from reality. It's like how I would not trust a Bush administration report on American systems.
Seems like you get what americans get,what a pity.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 11:02 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
I think this thread should be laid to rest. There isn't any more to be said about the original topic anymore.
I must repeat something.

It's highly ridiculous to criticize China without acknowledging anything.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 01:51 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jue
It is annoying, but well deserved. I am proudly Shanghainese, yet am disgusted at Chinese arrogance. At its worst, it can be a society of scheming thieves - steal first, and escape via pretension. Politics may be one thing Westerners have no business speaking of (dependent on Chinese imperial tradition), but other factors are different. There is nothing wrong with Westerners attacking China for environmental issues or IP protection. This is one humankind, and at such a critical stage, Chinese selfishness is simply incredible.

One example:
"Why shouldn't we pollute if the West did in its past?"
Perhaps because nobody will survive if they do?

Tiger, please don't shame our country. A strong man is one that can admit errors; a strong patriot is one that acknowledges his country has problems, and acts to solve them, rather than childishly ignoring them.

Yes, the Chinese government needs time to adapt, but that is irrelevant to the issue at hand, of theft. Wrong is wrong, even "with Chinese characteristics."
Typical self hating banana cum hanjian. Calling Chinese selfish is more than thick and just shows your ignorance of world affairs and you being a victim of "Western" propaganda. Chinese are consuming 1/20 the amount of resources an average US American and 1/10 a German "enjoys" per year. Tell me, who is selfish? Isn't it time to ask the "West" to adapt to the new situation? Like using less resources?

Before you tell me I am ignorant of China's environmental problems. I am currently designing a sewage water treatment system for some medium size cities for China. As a designer, I know damn well about the IP problems in China.
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