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Old June 8th, 2006, 01:56 PM   #161
Monkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger
@ Monkey,try to know more about China when you want to talk about China with Chinese.This is just like talking about football.It's always more interesting to talk with a football fan than a person who just knows little about it.
I know loads about China. I have probably seen more cites and provinces in that country than most Chinese. Don't make patronising assumptions!
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Old June 8th, 2006, 02:05 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
I know loads about China. I have probably seen more cites and provinces in that country than most Chinese. Don't make patronising assumptions!
Really? What do you know about China ... hmmmm ... well, tell me something about the most important philosophical works of China's greatest thinkers. Make a small list, ten persons and their best work would suffice.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 02:06 PM   #163
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being a tourist is rather different from being a long term resident. just because you've travelled to many cities of China, it does not make you more knowledgable on China issues than some local Chinese who's lived his/her entire life in China but hardly been out of his/her home town ...
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Old June 8th, 2006, 02:08 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Really? What do you know about China ... hmmmm ... well, tell me something about the most important philosophical works of China's greatest thinkers. Make a small list, ten persons and their best work would suffice.
What does that have to do with the fact that China is robbing Western companies blind?
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Old June 8th, 2006, 02:25 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
What does that have to do with the fact that China is robbing Western companies blind?
Donkey, dear, Monkey said he knows more about China than most Chinese. Nothing about IP problems in this case.

And before you accuse Chinese robbing Western companies blind, Chinese won't let the "West" rob China blind as well. You did it once, but no chance for a second time.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 02:28 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Donkey, dear, Monkey said he knows more about China than most Chinese. Nothing about IP problems in this case.

And before you accuse Chinese robbing Western companies blind, Chinese won't let the "West" rob China blind as well. You did it once, but no chance for a second time.
How is adding investment and capital into your country robbing you?

And you are proving other points as well, that you justify this theft because they robbed you before in the past.

Future powers ought not make judgements based on their pasts, it just brings up all sorts of nastiness, be it from the days of "spheres of influence" to the current "**** Japan because they invaded us in WWII."

Being overly-nationalistic is wrong, be it Americans or Chinese.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 03:31 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
How is adding investment and capital into your country robbing you?

And you are proving other points as well, that you justify this theft because they robbed you before in the past.

Future powers ought not make judgements based on their pasts, it just brings up all sorts of nastiness, be it from the days of "spheres of influence" to the current "**** Japan because they invaded us in WWII."

Being overly-nationalistic is wrong, be it Americans or Chinese.
What's the reason behind the investments? Surely not because they wanted to be benevolent to the Chinese people.

Everything that happens today is linked with the past, everything we do today will effect future actions, unless you believe in vaccuum.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 03:44 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
What's the reason behind the investments? Surely not because they wanted to be benevolent to the Chinese people.

Everything that happens today is linked with the past, everything we do today will effect future actions, unless you believe in vaccuum.
Because they want to make money, which, while doing so, makes China money.

As such, this does NOT give China the right to break agreements and then screw Western countries in the name of "you ****ed us in the Opium War, now we get to **** you"

The fact that so many Chinese forumers are justifying theft is appaling and makes me wonder whether emphasis should be focused on democratic countries like India that have an enforceable and just rule of law, unlike China.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 03:51 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
Because they want to make money, which, while doing so, makes China money.
Everybody who wants to make money has to take some risks as well. The more money you want, the more risks you have to take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
As such, this does NOT give China the right to break agreements and then screw Western countries in the name of "you ****ed us in the Opium War, now we get to **** you"
Tongue in cheek, mate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
The fact that so many Chinese forumers are justifying theft is appaling and makes me wonder whether emphasis should be focused on democratic countries like India that have an enforceable and just rule of law, unlike China.
That's why they move at snail pace and get less foreign investments.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 03:55 PM   #170
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http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...ent_612253.htm


Maglev line negotiations stalled
By Xiao Guo (chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2006-06-08 18:16

Negotiations over the magnetic levitation (maglev) Shanghai-Hangzhou train line project between China and Germany are on the verge of failure, reports the 21st Century Business Herald June 7.

......................
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:06 PM   #171
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yeah, I read the Chinese version and the Chinese say that if the Germans agree to their terms, the Maglev will go ahead, otherwise, the Chinese will either scratch the project totally or build the 350Km high speed railway instead -- which would mean that the travel time between SH and HZ would go from 28 minutes to 32 minutes ... apparantly not such a big difference anyway.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Really? What do you know about China ... hmmmm ... well, tell me something about the most important philosophical works of China's greatest thinkers. Make a small list, ten persons and their best work would suffice.
So we need to study Chinese philosophers now to "talk" to Chinese people? Perhaps you should read some British/Western philiosophers before you talk to me? You're a joke!!

Please explain to me how studying Chinese philosophers will better help me to understand the basic fact of Chinese engineers breaking into the Maglev depot in the dead of night to steal intellectual property from their German "partners"??

I see that YelloPerilo is in full trollish swing.... unpleasant, unintelligent, and uninteresting....
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:10 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didu
being a tourist is rather different from being a long term resident. just because you've travelled to many cities of China, it does not make you more knowledgable on China issues than some local Chinese who's lived his/her entire life in China but hardly been out of his/her home town ...
I don't need to know anything about China whatsoever to recognise and criticise blatant intellectual property theft! That in fact I know plenty about China is a complete irrelevance to the issue at hand....
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:15 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Everybody who wants to make money has to take some risks as well. The more money you want, the more risks you have to take.



Tongue in cheek, mate!



That's why they move at snail pace and get less foreign investments.
Well, ever try to think that blatantly robbing Western companies may burn too many companies and make India more competitive?

And mock India as much as you like, I am frankly shocked at how one third world country has the audacity to think itself superior to another third world country, but one thing that India has that China does not is long term stability, precisely because it is a democracy. The peasants keep on being pissed like they are now and revolt like they did when they put the Communists in power, your investments are ****ED! India, however, does not have this problem.

Perhaps it is time that Western companies re-evaluate their positions in China in light of such blatant thievery.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:17 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
I don't need to know anything about China whatsoever to recognise and criticise blatant intellectual property theft! That in fact I know plenty about China is a complete irrelevance to the issue at hand....
Then why the hell did you have to claim that you knew loads about China?

I am fully against intellectual property violation, and I have not bought or usd any illegal software, music or movies for 8 years. If you want to help stop the violation of intellectual property in China, you can start by not buying any illegal software, music or videos when you go to China and tell your fellow expats in China to do the same.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:20 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
I don't need to know anything about China whatsoever to recognise and criticise blatant intellectual property theft! That in fact I know plenty about China is a complete irrelevance to the issue at hand....
Difference is, as an outsider, what you do is only to criticise. But as Chinese, we need to think hard how to solve the problems. This kinda of IP theft is not something that can be overcome overnight although we're working on it everyday. And if you are not happy, persuade the western companies not to come to China; and if they think the money wasted by this problem is overwhelmed by the profit they make, they may well listen to you; otherwise, it's a risk that they want to risk. And there is little you can do about it. Fact is, although IP is not protected in China comparing to the west, more companies still make lots of money. So you shouldn't be worried to much.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:26 PM   #177
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Quote:
And mock India as much as you like, I am frankly shocked at how one third world country has the audacity to think itself superior to another third world country, but one thing that India has that China does not is long term stability, precisely because it is a democracy.
Typical western propoganda victim. We of course do not regard our country to be superior to another, but fact is China has done much better than India in terms of improving people's living conditions in the past few decades. But still you are calling India, a country with 80% of its population live under $2 a day, has a longer term stability than China. How ironic?

Quote:
The peasants keep on being pissed like they are now and revolt like they did when they put the Communists in power, your investments are ****ED! India, however, does not have this problem.
Haha, are you Indian or Chinese? Are you suggesting that Indian peasants are leading a better life than their Chinese counterparts? If not, Indians have a higher chance of a revolt than the Chinese.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:26 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
Well, ever try to think that blatantly robbing Western companies may burn too many companies and make India more competitive?
People and countries pay for their mistakes, China cannot continue to violate
intellectual properties and if they do, they will be punished for it and by then, it
will only have itself to blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
And mock India as much as you like, I am frankly shocked at how one third world country has the audacity to think itself superior to another third world country, but one thing that India has that China does not is long term stability, precisely because it is a democracy. The peasants keep on being pissed like they are now and revolt like they did when they put the Communists in power, your investments are ****ED! India, however, does not have this problem.
Don't generlize the opinion of one person (who's not even a citizen of PRC) as
the opinion of an entire nation. China has never thought itself superior than any
one. On the exact contrary, China recognizes many of the big advantages that
India has over China and is doing everything it can to learn from and catch up to India. Officially, China does not see India as a competitor, but a long term partner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
Perhaps it is time that Western companies re-evaluate their positions in China in light of such blatant thievery.
I'm sure the western companies know what they are doing better than you do. They don't come to China because they want to make China a better place, they come to China because they can make more profit than anywhere else on this planet. The relationship between China and western companies is strictly business, if the western companies know that they can get a better deal else where, they will leave China, if China thinks its does not need the western companies any more, it will get rid of them.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 04:29 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
So we need to study Chinese philosophers now to "talk" to Chinese people? Perhaps you should read some British/Western philiosophers before you talk to me? You're a joke!!

Please explain to me how studying Chinese philosophers will better help me to understand the basic fact of Chinese engineers breaking into the Maglev depot in the dead of night to steal intellectual property from their German "partners"??

I see that YelloPerilo is in full trollish swing.... unpleasant, unintelligent, and uninteresting....
You know what, I have read a fair share of "Western" philospher's works ... not only that, but also in their native languages.

You were the one who claimed to know loads about China, in fact you know very little.

As a matter oft fact, I as a designer who works in China as well should be the very last person to justify IP theft. Chinese companies suffer the most from IP theft in China right now.

Of course, I am unpleasant, because I can unveil your ignorance and arrogance ...
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Old June 8th, 2006, 08:49 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didu
Then why the hell did you have to claim that you knew loads about China?
But I do know plenty about China. However I don't have to know anything about China whatsoever to recognise blatant intellectual property theft when I see it! I mean what difference does it make how much I know (or don't know) about Chinese philiosophers? It's a total irrelevance! I thought I made that clear in my last post. Maybe read my poststs more carefully next time....
Quote:
Originally Posted by didu
I am fully against intellectual property violation, and I have not bought or usd any illegal software, music or movies for 8 years. If you want to help stop the violation of intellectual property in China, you can start by not buying any illegal software, music or videos when you go to China and tell your fellow expats in China to do the same.
So.... are you blaming expats for China's software/media piracy now?

Last edited by Monkey; June 9th, 2006 at 03:09 AM.
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