USA - Stadium and Arena Development News

Originally Posted by kingdomca

Randy please dont start embarrassing americans again by making silly comparisons based on your own country. Sport is simply not based around schools in europe, but clubs and as such comparisons are a joke, in fact in my country comparisons would be impossible as there isnt a single university field of any kind. students do sports at local clubs.

Did you even read through all the preceding replies to this thread? Some of the Europeans were the ones who began comparing the stadia featured at the beginning of this thread with stadia in Europe and trying to point out why European stadia were better. I was trying to remind them that the majority of the largest American football stadia were located on college campuses and, therefore, lacked some of the amenities (e.g., individual seats) that are usually found in stadia used by professional football teams that are often built with public funding and benefit from corporate sponsorship.

[rantanamo]

Originally Posted by kingdomca

My point was that wanting to compare american university stadiums to european university stadiums would be pretty pointless given that there are no european ones.

Maybe less of a comparison, and more of a contrast.

Originally Posted by kingdomca

I was aware that you probably had all sorts of smaller closed shop pro-leagues, but I would consider them beneath college and as such we would be pretty far down the comparison list. Judging from my own country Europe would have well beyond 2,000 pro clubs, though that sounds a bit high.

I wouldn't put them beneath college from the level-of-play standpoint as they are made up of former college players who are now professional. There are probably 1 or 2 college teams that could compete with CFL teams or arena league teams. The college players are not as physically mature and have to balance their sport with their academic responsibilities. Especially in baseball. I'd put AA and AA above college baseball. Some lower league teams actually have exhibitions with college teams in basketball or baseball. Only maybe the top 10 teams in college compete well with them. Our track and field system works similarly to football. The NCAA's are very competitive for track and field and occasionally set world records.

Originally Posted by kingdomca

Anyway, one thing I really admire about college football is that they play so incredibly few games! I think thats great but its strange as it seems to be in stark contrast to both european and other american sport and is far better than having physically and especially mentally tired players.

This is all about the game. Having played football, I can tell you that 2 games per week would be the maximum the human body could stand assuming there are no injuries. Then one must consider the mental and 'book' aspect of football. Teams simply can't practice 1 or 2 days and be prepared to play against a team who has 1,000 pages in their playbook, audibles for each formation, tendencies out of each formation, individual player tendencies, substitution patterns, special team tendencies, and possible trick plays. Not to mention implementing one's own strategies. By the time all of this is implemented, the week is over. So basically you end up with 1 game per week for 3 months (Sept - Nov) , Then bowl games. The NFL plays 16 games(once per week Sept - Dec). Its just a really tough game to play more than once per week.

Originally Posted by kingdomca

Yes I understand you have lots of roofs and for all the ones that dont have its purely because you want it that way. Sure ok I shall not for as much as a second think that its because they cant afford it.
Nobody wants indoor football, I dont think, but I consider roofs over the stands important not least because of the atmosphere.

Just a difference in fan philosophies, and maybe a weather difference. We have lots of good weather and sunshine during our football season.

Originally Posted by kingdomca

I am not sure why colleges compares to pro european clubs, colleges make little money play few games with amateurs, whereas euro clubs play too many games and is plenty coporate for the liking of most fans

If you're referring to my comparison, I'm referring to the atmosphere. Pro sports here are much more corporate, while at college games you'll see all kinds of color, song singing, etc. Much louder and more spirited compared to our sterile professional sports.

[kingdomca]

Rantanamo, I think its pretty obvious that one game per week is max given the nature of the game, same here with rugby, what surprises me is the extremly short season, september to november,basically, but its definately not a bad thing

[Toadboy]

The safety issues in Europe around individual seating is so everyone has a defined space (in theory you can have that with benches) and people can't cram into one small area which is still possible with benches. In the absence of standing terraces, benches allow for a better atmosphere in the stadiums, people seem more able or ready to let themselves go for some reason.

The other reason for individual seating is a policing matter, they know where people are and can control situations more effectively.

I'm not a great fan of American Football but saw one or two college games on TV as well as a live game in Tampa. The college crowds in general seem more vociferous (more alcohol?) and the pro teams more an 'event'. Having said that the pro game I went to descended in to crowd trouble as Dallas scored with second remaining to win the game, not a usual fixture apparently and thousand of Dallas fans had made the trip. The guy next to me apologised, he needn't have bothered as it was the most entertaining aspect of the whole day!

In terms of college sports facilities, certainly comparing them with the UK, I'm not sure colleges here are large enough never mind rich enough for that kind of set up. Usually it's amazing if colleges have modern athletics facilities, floodlight pitches and any spectator facilities whatsoever! The scale of US facilities is mind blowing.

[el pato]

Busch was the nicest of the football/baseball stadiums ever built. It's too bad it's gonna be torn down though the new park looks spactacular. Don't like the green seats however. Red seats or anything but green would be nice.

[Iain1974]

Originally Posted by Toadboy

The safety issues in Europe around individual seating is so everyone has a defined space (in theory you can have that with benches) and people can't cram into one small area which is still possible with benches. In the absence of standing terraces, benches allow for a better atmosphere in the stadiums, people seem more able or ready to let themselves go for some reason.

The big difference between European and American stadiums is that in America there has never been a Hillsborough (or Bradford or Heysel).

I don't wish to be argumentitive with our American friends but most of the college stadiums would not be allowed to operate at all in the UK due to our very stringent safety requirements. If you remember the Taylor Report, many of our old grounds had their caacities slashed in the name of ground safety which is why, with SKY's money, there has been so much re-building/construction over the last decade. It's hard to imagine now, but Maine Road used to hold 85,000 yet in the wake of the Taylor Report the capacity was cut to 28K. Fratton held 70K but was cut to 20K. Not all grounds lost as much but most lost ~20%



That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with college stadiums as most football fans feel that the Tylor Report went too far. Most english/scottish fans would prefer to see some cheap seats with benches or even terracing back (and ideally at less than £20 a ticket).

Another big difference in the attitude towards stadium (and specifically their size) in the UK is the number of games the teams play. In the Premier Leage there are 19 home games plus a decent team can expect perhaps 3 or 4 in the 2 cups and if they're very good then perhaps another 6 in the Champions League. If all these games can be sold out (and for almost every team they will be sold out) they can generate a lot more revenue at ~40K seats than an NFL team selling 100K 9 or 10 times a season.

Essentially the English teams prefer to maximise revenue and only increase capacity as a last resort. Any football fans on here will be happy to tell you Americans what has hapenned to ticket prices over the last few years. Especially at the London teams. Chelsea for example have their cheapest tickets at £43 for this coming season yet I remember going there about 15 years ago and it was £2! Admittedly that was a Simod Cup game and we stood but even so, thats a hell of an increase in price.

I know that was a little off topic but I thought some background might explain why stadiums are built differently in different countries.

BTW, I lived in England for 23yrs, Scotland for 3yrs and USA (Texas) for 4 yrs) and have been to football games in 3 continents so I do have a little firsthand experience.

[rantanamo]

NFL stadia (US pro sports in general) tend to concentrate on increasing luxury suites with luxury boxes attached. This creates a totally different look I think, and increases the chance you'll see more than 2 tiers of seating. These alone create more revenue than the rest of the seats in the stadia, so you don't generally see pro stadia have the huge capacities that college stadia do. I'm not saying they don't exist in Europe. I'm saying there are stadia with 200+ of these things in the US, sitting beneath every tier of seating. Definitely creates a different look. Recent expansions at college stadia are starting to see this trend. DKR at U. of Texas for example, expanded luxury suites before expanding their capacity.

[The Game Is Up]

The park WILL have red seats. That's an older design they used to promote the idea of replacing Busch Stadium. The team held an online poll and the fans overwhelmingly chose red as the color of the seats. So red they'll be.

BTW, the name of the stadium that'll replace Busch Stadium will be.........(drum roll)..................Busch Stadium. Yep. Anheuser-Busch bought the naming rights to the new digs, for a period of 20 years.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...nto+tradition+

As someone else said, "Holy Crap!" this thread has some awesome fields in terms of shear number of seats.

Those shots of the propsed UT Austin expansion are amazing. And what if Kyle field were to close in the other endzone? The shot with the F16's is amazing!

Expansion

[hngcm]

Anheuser-Busch pays my check!

[DrJoe]

it looks like every other new stadium built lately...the current Busch is unique and i think one of the best looking in the majors.

[hngcm]

Busch stadium unique?!

[DrJoe]

yes it is...tell me another stadium in the MLB that looks remotely like Busch, its the only cookie cutter left and it has been greatly modified from that era also...it is unqiue

[asohn]

Originally Posted by rantanamo

Busch might be the last.

What were they? Busch, Riverfront, Three Rivers, Fulton County, the Vet (to an extent), oh, forgot about San Diego, though its all football now, ummmm, Anahiem, though it was nice renovated and doesn't resemble the cookie cutters now. Can't think of anymore.

Anyways, like the new stadium. Yes, the MLB parks use a lot of bricks, but each one has its own feel and style.

How can you forget the Mets' Shea Stadium - still standing and not being touched anytime soom for sure

[Architorture]

penn state....best stadium ever

michigan...too far away when you are in the top row... and they don't sell out every game... penn state has had the highest attendence per season for a few years now

[Balleke]

although i don't like most of these stadiums, not a very beautifull architecture, but DAMN some of them are just really big... like whole city's can come together in such a stadium

[ArchMadness]

I wouldn't consider Shea stadium a cookie-cutter. Its way to open in center field. A true cookie cutter is fully enclosed. In case nobody knows Busch stadium was the original cookie cutter and by far the best looking one. It'll be sad to see it go. Enough with the sentimental crap now here are some recent photos from 9/8/04...

[LibertyTwo]

Will be sad to see one of the last multi=purpose US stadiums go bye bye

[JivecitySTL]

Yuck. The old Busch is so much more original.

[Bigmac1212]

Bump!