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Old December 2nd, 2015, 07:50 AM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtonos View Post
And here's a thought. An individual double decker train can carry something like 50% more people (under normal loading conditions) than an equivalent single decker. How far does it need to go without stopping to carry (almost) 50% more people on each service?
I don't really understand your question. Could you elaborate?
Or are you implying that a double decker would need to travel longer distances non stop than a single decker? Why would that be the case?
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Old January 4th, 2016, 10:05 PM   #442
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Double deck trainset of an alternative design

Hello,

what do you mean about this arrangement of a double deck trainset? The bogie design allows this length of car bodies by 2800 width.

s18.postimg.org/d3ym4q37d/image.jpg

s1.postimg.org/6et9f5sm7/image.jpg

Jan
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Old January 5th, 2016, 01:17 AM   #443
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Why the triple axle?
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Old January 5th, 2016, 09:41 AM   #444
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Why the triple axle?
To carry all the weight and have shorter space, where are bogies and longer part of vehicle able to accommodate two decks.
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Old January 5th, 2016, 12:52 PM   #445
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Why do some emu's have jacob bogies and others have really long split bogies long balcony configuration.
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Old January 5th, 2016, 08:56 PM   #446
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Conventional bogies and Jacobs bogies each have their advantages and disadvantages, that more or less cancel out each other nowadays. Thus it's more constructors and customers preference then technical necessity to prefer one over the other.
However two major differences remain: A Jacobs bogie train can only be (un)coupled in a workshop, and you have weight restrictions because you have less axles per train length, making driven Jacobs bogies on double decker trains very difficult, unless you use a creative solution like the Bombardier Regio 2N.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 04:57 PM   #447
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It's not only black and white. Bombardier Regio 2N is really clever, but ...
Link: s12.postimg.org/43nv4fqn1/image.jpg
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Old February 28th, 2016, 04:58 AM   #448
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WAP5 Fastest Mumbai Ahmedabad Double Decker Express Whines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= Inside Double Decker AC Coach: Ahmedabad Mumbai Double Decker Express Train(AC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
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Old March 4th, 2016, 11:10 AM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanPlomer View Post
Hello,

what do you mean about this arrangement of a double deck trainset? The bogie design allows this length of car bodies by 2800 width.

Jan
What is the distance between bogie centres in your design? Your pictures suggest it is about 25 metres. I think this is a problem as it gives very much overhang in curves (the dynamic envelope aspect of loading gauge). Which rail system is it for?
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Old March 5th, 2016, 04:09 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberoende View Post
What is the distance between bogie centres in your design? Your pictures suggest it is about 25 metres. I think this is a problem as it gives very much overhang in curves (the dynamic envelope aspect of loading gauge). Which rail system is it for?
Distance between bogie centres is 24m, but distance between bogie pivots is 19m. Pivots are not in centre. This allows fulfill european gauge width according to EN 15 273.
This concept is applicable to UK overthrows with distance between pivots 17 300 and distance between bogie centres 23 300, of course with changed reference profile.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 01:43 AM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanPlomer View Post
Hello,

what do you mean about this arrangement of a double deck trainset? The bogie design allows this length of car bodies by 2800 width.





Jan
00
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Old April 21st, 2017, 01:44 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanPlomer View Post
It's not only black and white. Bombardier Regio 2N is really clever, but ...
Link:
00
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Old April 21st, 2017, 01:45 AM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
Conventional bogies and Jacobs bogies each have their advantages and disadvantages, that more or less cancel out each other nowadays. Thus it's more constructors and customers preference then technical necessity to prefer one over the other.
However two major differences remain: A Jacobs bogie train can only be (un)coupled in a workshop, and you have weight restrictions because you have less axles per train length, making driven Jacobs bogies on double decker trains very difficult, unless you use a creative solution like the Bombardier Regio 2N.
Most if not all multiple units perform together for eternity if they don't get into an accident so they are meant to be separated into their components only when visiting the maintenance depots anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
These separation doors are mainly a relic from the past, from the time the transfer tunnels between the cars (or is there an other English word for that?) were very noisy. By using 2 doors you could somewhat shield the passengers from those noises. Added bonus of course is that they also dampen the platform noise during stops.
Actually it was the other way around. The door of the saloon/compartment was directly to the outside. And then they added side corridors in the compartment coaches and OPEN end vestibules to the saloons wich themselves were in latter years closed.

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Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
The current Dasye/EuroDuplex will be very difficult to replace, because they go against all current trends:
  1. Power cars instead of distributed traction. The latter is nearly impossible to do with a 17 tonne axle load limit and Jacobs bogies (an Alstom centre-piece) => Use 'regular' bogies
  2. The capacity difference between a Duplex (508 seats) and an AGV (NTV: 460 seats) isn't that big anymore (compared to 377 seats on a TGV POS)
  3. There is no 760mm platform variant
  4. More passengers via fewer doors => longer dwelling times
  5. Lower ceiling heights => Cramped feeling for the passengers (a Duplex is just 4,32m high, against 4,67m for a Dutch VIRM set for instance)

The E4 suffers from 3. and 4., but also from it's limited 240 km/h top speed and it's 6 abreast seating in regular class. If needed I have no doubt they would reintroduce double-deckers in a hart beat, of course incorporating the lessons learned from the previous generations.
The new duplex version after 2N2 will be AGV based with the powerpacks on the extreme end cars and distributed power like the AGV. There are no news yet if these end cars would be fully or partially dedicated to the powerpacks (either a lower level was subtracted like DDm or other option?) ... the transformers weight about 6,5ton. wich is equivalent to a coach full of passengers.

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Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
TGV Duplex: 320 km/h

Shinkansen double deck:
100 series, two floors in 2 or 4 cars of some series (1986/2012) 66 sets
E1 series (1994/2012) 6 sets
E4 series (1997/2016) 26 sets
French TGV = 320km/h
Shinkansen 2 level trainsets = 240km/h <<< this is the main reason they were/are being replaced ... too slow
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Last edited by sotavento; April 21st, 2017 at 02:13 AM.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 01:55 AM   #454
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https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/...d-62d22c0b4100
http://www.simi.pt/pt/projetos/72?id_categoria=33



http://sabiasque.pt/trabalho/noticia...o-governo.html
Just to add the source of the pictue ... the subject of the news is irrelevant here.


https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/fert..._M6wwmNLnxj_WA
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old April 24th, 2017, 05:28 PM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
Why do some emu's have jacob bogies and others have really long split bogies long balcony configuration.


With the Dutch Railways (NS) they are used for their wide openings in between cars so the whole train is visible from each end within. The visibility stretches out to almost 100m (300ft).

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
The current Dasye/EuroDuplex will be very difficult to replace, because they go against all current trends:
  1. Power cars instead of distributed traction. The latter is nearly impossible to do with a 17 tonne axle load limit and Jacobs bogies (an Alstom centre-piece) => Use 'regular' bogies
  2. The capacity difference between a Duplex (508 seats) and an AGV (NTV: 460 seats) isn't that big anymore (compared to 377 seats on a TGV POS)
  3. There is no 760mm platform variant
  4. More passengers via fewer doors => longer dwelling times
  5. Lower ceiling heights => Cramped feeling for the passengers (a Duplex is just 4,32m high, against 4,67m for a Dutch VIRM set for instance)
The E4 suffers from 3. and 4., but also from it's limited 240 km/h top speed and it's 6 abreast seating in regular class. If needed I have no doubt they would reintroduce double-deckers in a hart beat, of course incorporating the lessons learned from the previous generations.

About Dutch double-deckers: the DD-AR/DDZ is an example of how doors should be made in double-deckers: at least 2 meters wide to force people to go in and out faster. This really decreases dwell times significantly (1,5 minute unfill/refill in total should be acceptable). The VIRM has smaller ones (so 2:30 minutes) and the difference is significant. But ICR is the worst: 2 minutes to empty the train and then another 2 for filling it causing delays is very common. And that is just one single deck!
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Old April 24th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I don't really understand your question. Could you elaborate?
Or are you implying that a double decker would need to travel longer distances non stop than a single decker? Why would that be the case?
If a train goes for longer without stopping, the operator can dwell less on dwell time.
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Old April 25th, 2017, 12:29 AM   #457
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Portuguese double deckers run on the tagus bridge route (average 2/3km between stops or even more) and on the central corridor (linha de cintura) where they are known to create nightmares due to their only having that same 2meter wide doors ... it's a matter of knowing when enough is enough ... french 2deckers have 3 sets of doors


http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/.../MI09/pix.html
Photo Patrick Meunier www.pixyrail.com
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old April 25th, 2017, 05:08 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Portuguese double deckers run on the tagus bridge route (average 2/3km between stops or even more) and on the central corridor (linha de cintura) where they are known to create nightmares due to their only having that same 2meter wide doors ... it's a matter of knowing when enough is enough ... french 2deckers have 3 sets of doors


http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/.../MI09/pix.html
Photo Patrick Meunier www.pixyrail.com
That will require a lot of stairs.
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Old April 26th, 2017, 02:07 AM   #459
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RATP comuter trains have a lot of stairs.
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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old April 26th, 2017, 08:14 AM   #460
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Cross-post from the South Korean high speed rail thread. Bilevel KTX apparently coming this summer:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=623

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agKh5ieIu5Y
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