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Old December 15th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #241
goschio
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It was never planned to construct the airport with full capacity right from the begining. So it can't be said that it has been scaled down. On the contrary, they added more slots to the intial phase to cope with increased traffic expectations. .
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Old December 15th, 2010, 01:45 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
Which facts? Care to elaborate and support your claims with any sources? Judgeing from your triple use of 'again, three different from three different points in time that would be. I suppose you can't though, which just proves my point - seems you simply have a personal problem with anything that is related to Berlin, making it difficult for you to add anything of value apart from self-claimed and otherwhise unsupported 'facts'. It's a pity there's no *plonk*-functionality implemented in the current Forum Software.
If "plonk" feature were available, you would be on the "plonk" list, since you love using "self-claimed and otherwhise unsupported 'facts'" yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
What a lame discussion. That guy from 2003 is obviously a Frankfurter or from Munich, they regulary seem to have the biggest problems with Berlin. Seems to be his personal short-dick-syndrome. That's what you get when you plant skyscrapers into a medium-sized city. So please, aab7772003, refrain from shoving up your general humble opinion about who likes Berlin how much into a thread that is called "Berlin Capital Airport (BBI) Construction".
...
Once upon a time:
http://t3.************/images?q=tbn:N...10044o.jpg&t=1

Coming to terms with reality:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/al...3936386333.jpg

Reality bites:
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7...portcitysm.jpg
(similar image circulated before this summer anticipated much more business park developments but were quickly deleted/removed by Unternehmen Berliner Flughäfen almost as soon this image was released.

I have not seen the initial phrase of a new major airport being scaled down so often for a long time.

Is the following "anything of value"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
Hellomoto is right Darryl!

If by "spectacular"you mean an asian-like airport, then It wouldn't fit Berlin.

Berlin is more classy and sophisticated that any asian city, it's airport doesn't need to be a weedding cake with stravagant shapes and lights.

BBI is spectacularly elegant and classy, more it's timeless.

lets compare it with the asian airports that you like in 2030.
the asian ones will look "demodee", but BBI will still look classy and eternal.

it's Berlin tradition to build elegant timeless airports.
BBI just follows Tempelhoff tradition in this respect.

is very German.
BER and Tempelhof have two very different architectural styles, for example. This BER terminal does not even come close to the original TWA JFK terminal. BTW, SIN Terminal 1 was inaugurated in 1981 and still looks good today.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 15th, 2010 at 02:57 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 09:59 AM   #243
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You misunderstood something my dear friend. Maybe you have to improve your German to read the text which belongs to the images. But keep in mind, there are several steps in builing the airport planned. What you do is simply to compare the final extension with the extension on the date of opening. This is really poor reasoning. But nevertheless it is the first time I can see a kind of reasoning in your post. So
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Old December 15th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
If "plonk" feature were available, you would be on the "plonk" list, since you love using "self-claimed and otherwhise unsupported 'facts'" yourself.
Show me where.


Muhaha. Big fail. Picture 1 shows a masterplan layout that was pitched against the Layout in Picture 2 with the same capacity (one T-satellite vs. two I-satellites). Design 2 was choosen and it was clear from early on that it will be built in phases. Satellite 1 will follow most likely five years after the inauguration, Satellite 2 when it is required. Again, there is no downsizing at all, it was clear from the very beginning that the pitched masterplan should provide enough capacity for growth until 2030. On the contrary, additional gates have been added and the possibility to keep the old Terminals open. This can be partly seen in Picture 3, where the side wings (= placeholders in picture 2) are now attached to the main terminal and will be equipped with gates (LCC on north pier without jetways, AB on south pier with 9 additional jetways), contrary to picture 2. You just showed us an upscaling of planned inital capacity, so thanks for proving my point. All this information can be found within this thread, on the official websites and on wikipedia, if you like it short and simple. In school we called that reading comprehension. Try to work on that.

Last edited by Dase; December 15th, 2010 at 01:05 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 12:53 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
In school we called that reading comprehension. Try to work on that.

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Old December 15th, 2010, 02:14 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
You misunderstood something my dear friend. Maybe you have to improve your German to read the text which belongs to the images. But keep in mind, there are several steps in builing the airport planned. What you do is simply to compare the final extension with the extension on the date of opening. This is really poor reasoning. But nevertheless it is the first time I can see a kind of reasoning in your post. So
I do not misunderstand anything but rather understand everything going here. This thread is all about "BER is the perfect airport for the world."

Your comment on me having poor reasoning of course conveniently ignores the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
...
Reality bites:
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7...portcitysm.jpg
(similar image circulated before this summer anticipated much more business park developments but were quickly deleted/removed by Unternehmen Berliner Flughäfen almost as soon this image was released.
...
It is an PR trick to divert people´s attention away from the fact that the first phrase of the airport has shrunk once again.

Then again, my German is no worse than your geography.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 02:18 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
Show me where...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
...
If "plonk" feature were available, you would be on the "plonk" list, since you love using "self-claimed and otherwhise unsupported 'facts'" yourself.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
In school we called that reading comprehension. Try to work on that.
...
Go back to school yourself to improve your "reading comprehension" then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
Muhaha. Big fail. Picture 1 shows a masterplan layout that was pitched against the Layout in Picture 2 with the same capacity (one T-satellite vs. two I-satellites). Design 2 was choosen and it was clear from early on that it will be built in phases. Satellite 1 will follow most likely five years after the inauguration, Satellite 2 when it is required. Again, there is no downsizing at all, it was clear from the very beginning that the pitched masterplan should provide enough capacity for growth until 2030. On the contrary, additional gates have been added and the possibility to keep the old Terminals open. This can be partly seen in Picture 3, where the side wings (= placeholders in picture 2) are now attached to the main terminal and will be equipped with gates (LCC on north pier without jetways, AB on south pier with 9 additional jetways), contrary to picture 2. You just showed us an upscaling of planned inital capacity, so thanks for proving my point. All this information can be found within this thread, on the official websites and on wikipedia, if you like it short and simple. In school we called that reading comprehension. Try to work on that.
In order to uphold your claim of BER is the ever-expanding airport with stunning architecture details till the very end, you of course have to conveniently ignore the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
...
Reality bites:
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7...portcitysm.jpg
(similar image circulated before this summer anticipated much more business park developments but were quickly deleted/removed by Unternehmen Berliner Flughäfen almost as soon this image was released.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
...
I have not seen the initial phrase of a new major airport being scaled down so often for a long time.
Rubbish such as BER shines above all with the pinnacle of the architectural perfection is everything of value to you because of your undying love for the airport.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 15th, 2010 at 02:28 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 02:58 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
Go back to school yourself to improve your "reading comprehension" then.
I was asking where I was using self-claimed and otherwhise unsupported 'facts'. All things I've claimed here can be confirmed in the stated sources. Sorry, I should have known you would'nt get this quite simple question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
In order to uphold your claim of BER is the ever-expanding airport with stunning architecture details till the very end, you of course have to conveniently ignore the following:
Your inital claims where:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
Let´s see how the "beauty" of this ever-downsizing airport will last.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
The truth is that the scale of the airport has shrunk again, again and again.
without any restraint whatsoever. I guess adjusting your claim in your third post was your way of acknowledging that your initial quotes were utter bullshit, but here's the point: there never was an inital phase planned that was larger than the one that is now being built, i.e., nothing has been shrunk. You still fail to prove your pronouncements, but I guess you'll continue to twist words to avoid admitting that you were plain wrong. Please tell us what exactly has been shrunken for the inital phase" and support it by sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
Rubbish such as BER shines above all with the pinnacle of the architectural perfection is everything of value to you because of your undying love for the airport.
I never claimed any undying love, I am merely correcting the bullshit you're littering this thread with. I don't know if it's caused by a short dick syndrome or you have once been raped in Berlin, but it's generally unwhise to let yourself be guided by personal hatred for something similar. Makes yourself look preposterous.

Last edited by Dase; December 15th, 2010 at 03:19 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 02:58 PM   #249
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@ aab7772003
Oh, you are back and really in fine fettle. Badmouthing like nobody else on skyscrapercity!!

And for your comprehension, to quote the posts of your own to show some evidence is just ridiculous.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
I never claimed any undying love, I am merely correcting the bullshit you're littering this thread with. I don't know if it's caused by a short dick syndrome or you have once been raped in Berlin, but it's generally unwhise to let yourself be guided by personal hatred for something similar. Makes yourself look preposterous.
You sure look preposterously desperate over there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
Let's see whether we'll ever read a comment by you that actually contains something valuable.
I have to give it to you for your valuable contributions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
Without any restraint. I guess adjusting your claim in your third post was your way of acknowledging that your initial quotes were utter bullshit, but here's the point: there never was an inital phase planned that was larger than the one that is now being built, i.e., nothing has been shrunk. You still fail to prove your pronouncements, but I guess you'll continue to twist words to avoid admitting that you were plain wrong.
...
I am no master in front you in the arena of adjusting claims.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 15th, 2010 at 03:23 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamery View Post
...
Badmouthing like nobody else on skyscrapercity!!

And for your comprehension, to quote the posts of your own to show some evidence is just ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
I never claimed any undying love, I am merely correcting the bullshit you're littering this thread with. I don't know if it's caused by a short dick syndrome or you have once been raped in Berlin, but it's generally unwhise to let yourself be guided by personal hatred for something similar. Makes yourself look preposterous.
But then I am not that "nobody else."

I am not as ridiculous as someone who is obsessed with misquoting.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 03:25 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
waffle
It is obvious you are not very familiar with the circumstandes of planning the airport and with the airport city as well. The airport has never been shrunked, on the opposite the construction plans according to the opening date have been extended twice.

No. 1 and quote from this PR (30.06.2009):
Quote:
Berlin Airports’ CEO Schwarz also announced that the initial opening capacity of BBI is to be raised from 22 million to 27 million passengers. Schwarz commented: “In the past years, Berlin Airports’ growth has always been well above the overall development of the German market, and even in the midst of the crisis the Berlin market continues to exhibit robust growth. We are losing fewer passengers than all other major German airports and have very successfully established ourselves in third place overall in Germany.
No. 2
Quote PR (25.06.2010):
Quote:
Sustainable solution ensures compliance with new European Union safety regulations: BBI terminal is to get two additional extensions for security screening.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 03:39 PM   #253
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@aab7772003: and again - instead of commenting on the topic, maybe admitting you were wrong or trying to prove otherwhise we see the same old kindergarten-style one-sentence answers. Judging from the tone of your other posts in this forum, I guess you're making up for some shortcomings in real life.



@way of thinking: It's casting pearls before swine. But for the record, source No.1 is talking about the side wings I've been writing about in #244.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
... But for the record, source No.1 is talking about the side wings I've been writing about in #244.
I know and I suppose that everyone knows if he is able to read the earlier posts in this thread. But to clarify this fact again to Mr. aab7772003: another quote from this PR which shows, Dase is just in the right:
Quote:
... The BBI capacity increase will be achieved by implementing a number of additional construction measures, including extending the apron and the South Pier. Transfer conditions for passengers will be improved by including an additional intermediate level. A third taxiway between the main pier and the first satellite terminal (which will be built at a later point) will optimize aircraft movements on the ground. Berlin Airports will also be investing even more in noise protection measures for local residents. Planned investment costs for this scheme are €140 million. The capacity increase and the expansion of the noise protection measures raises the BBI investment budget to €2.5 billion. ...
But probably you are right and Mr. aab7772003 is refractory not accessible for communication.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 04:13 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post

...
@way of thinking: It's casting pearls before swine. But for the record, source No.1 is talking about the side wings I've been writing about in #244.
Casting pearls before swines, indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
I never claimed any undying love, I am merely correcting the bullshit you're littering this thread with. I don't know if it's caused by a short dick syndrome or you have once been raped in Berlin, but it's generally unwhise to let yourself be guided by personal hatred for something similar. Makes yourself look preposterous.
Do not forget what you wrote in in #248.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
@aab7772003: and again - instead of commenting on the topic, maybe admitting you were wrong or trying to prove otherwhise we see the same old kindergarten-style one-sentence answers. Judging from the tone of your other posts in this forum, I guess you're making up for some shortcomings in real life.
...
I did comment on somone´s comment on this topic. Why should I admit that I am wrong when I am not and am not infatuated with Berlin? While what I wrote is not kindergarten-grade, someone´s comments simply sound like some vulgar and vicious fraternity boys. Someone else is clearly obsessed with male genital sizes.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 15th, 2010 at 05:27 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 04:17 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
...
But probably you are right and Mr. aab7772003 is refractory not accessible for communication.
You are probably very open to communication of such quality:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
Hellomoto is right Darryl!

If by "spectacular"you mean an asian-like airport, then It wouldn't fit Berlin.

Berlin is more classy and sophisticated that any asian city, it's airport doesn't need to be a weedding cake with stravagant shapes and lights.

BBI is spectacularly elegant and classy, more it's timeless.

lets compare it with the asian airports that you like in 2030.
the asian ones will look "demodee", but BBI will still look classy and eternal.

it's Berlin tradition to build elegant timeless airports.
BBI just follows Tempelhoff tradition in this respect.

is very German.

Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
...
The airport has never been shrunked, on the opposite the construction plans according to the opening date have been extended twice.
...
This plan was not presented as a modual masterplan.
http://t3.************/images?q=tbn:N...10044o.jpg&t=1
There was even an animated 3D video showing how this fully realized plan would work with a final completion date way before 2010.

What is mentioned in #254 is not all expansions, especially those additional structures within the terminal building.

I suppose that everyone can see that Dase viciously attacks everyone who does not have total love for BER, like what he does in #248.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 15th, 2010 at 04:35 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
You are probably very open to communication of such quality:
Yes, and now I am waiting for your answer concerning the shrunk idea in your posts.
Edit: And of course the plan was always modular organized. You didn´hear the bell ringing or what? The whole "Planfestellungsverfahren" (plan approval procedure) was about this and verified by the federal administrative court in Leipzig!

Last edited by way of thinking; December 15th, 2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 04:50 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
Yes, and now I am waiting for your answer concerning the shrunk idea in your posts.
Edit: And of course the plan was always modular organized. You didn´hear the bell ringing or what? The whole "Planfestellungsverfahren" (plan approval procedure) was about this and verified by the federal administrative court in Leipzig!
You already have received the answer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
...
This plan was not presented as a modual masterplan.
http://t3.************/images?q=tbn:N...10044o.jpg&t=1
There was even an animated 3D video showing how this fully realized plan would work with a final completion date way before 2010.
...
A (larger) plan being rejected during the planning approval process is also down-scale, especially when years ago the first plan was touted to be fully completed way before 2010.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 15th, 2010 at 05:21 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
You already have received the answer:
A plan being rejected during the planning approval process is also down-scale, especially when years ago the first plan was touted to be fully completed way before 2010.
Yes, you are right, if a plan would have been rejected this could lead to a down-scale. But I cannot see a plan rejected and being replaced by a smaller new one. It was from the beginning clear to create the new airport step by step and the verified capacity accepted by the federal administrative court in Leipzig is roundabout 45 Mio. passangers/year and 360.000 flight movements was the same than postulated in the mid-nineties. The start capacity was aimed on 22 Mio/year and hereafter adjusted to 27 Mio., caused by significant growth from year to year. If the airport would need further extension, more than verified by the decision on official planning approval, another court decision would be necessary. This is far away in the future if ever.

The image you like to show: http://t3.************/images?q=tbn:N...10044o.jpg&t=1
is just a drawing of an alternative layout to the choosen one, with the same capacity due to complete extension. There was never more planning than this drawing, it is just an étude.

By the way, there have been plannings before 1989 to extend the Schoenefeld Airport with 4-5 runways . Here you can see an image:
Link to GDR-plan posted in the German thread
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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
...
The image you like to show: http://t3.************/images?q=tbn:N...10044o.jpg&t=1
is just a drawing of an alternative layout to the choosen one, with the same capacity due to complete extension. There was never more planning than this drawing, it is just an étude.
...
Thank you for your numbers. What was shown in this particular image was a little more than a drawing and a study. There was even an animated 3D video accompanying this plan, showing how this fully realized plan would work with a final completion date way before 2010. The current airport is not based any of the GDR plan but is based on the initial plan with very rapid and high growth projections depicted in the imagine above.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 15th, 2010 at 06:11 PM.
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