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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:34 PM   #261
way of thinking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
Thank you for your numbers. What was shown in this particular image was a little more than a drawing and a study. There was even an animated 3D video accompanying this plan, showing how this fully realized plan would work with a final completion date way before 2010. The current airport is not based any of the GDR plan but is based on the initial plan with very rapid and high growth projections depicted in the imagine above.
Yes I remember, there was a movie, but this was long long ago and I couldnīt find it in the web now. At that time there was also the discussion to use the current Terminal onwards, complemented by an triangular glas terminal as terminal for low fare flights. And at that time the building of the airport should be done by enterprises like IVG or HochTief. It is common use of share-based enterprises to paint some gloryfication into their aspired projects. But be careful to take such statements for reality. It is professional marketing for their products and service. And it has nothing to do with the reality, the official plan approval procedure.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 07:08 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
Yes I remember, there was a movie, but this was long long ago and I couldnīt find it in the web now. At that time there was also the discussion to use the current Terminal onwards, complemented by an triangular glas terminal as terminal for low fare flights. And at that time the building of the airport should be done by enterprises like IVG or HochTief. It is common use of share-based enterprises to paint some gloryfication into their aspired projects. But be careful to take such statements for reality. It is professional marketing for their products and service. And it has nothing to do with the reality, the official plan approval procedure.
Unternehmen Berliner Flughäfen and the city government of Berlin of course went along with the charade back then too. Everything in and around Berlin, including Postdamer Platz, was planned for the "London/Paris/Berlin" dream. The much more ambitious (aka vulgar according to some here) version of the new Parliament would have been built if it had not been the budget problem. In fact, the much more ambitious version of the Parliment was formally approved actually.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 15th, 2010 at 08:14 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 07:33 PM   #263
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You dive into a common problem, not specific for Berlin, but valid for the culture of our days. You can see this easily in the predictions of financial partners, public institutions, etc. For instance the official prediction on the oil price development of your home country is about as meaningful like to ask somebody at random on the street. 2004 the prediction on the oil price development was to be 25 years later the amount of 27 US-Dollar/barrel. A half year later the barrel costs was about the double. Nevertheless the officials adjusted the prediction to 57 Us-Dollars in 25 years. Do you know the current price? Do you see how ridiculous this is? Public affairs are often and economics almost always pure speculative. They are always based on data from the last years with strong difficulties to look into the future, but without faith to say that they have no idea of what the future will be about. In Berlin it was difficult to make any predictions in Berlin after the fall of the wall as it was difficult to predict the fall of the wall itself. But that is normal and it is really an old hat. Donīt you like to arrive into the present. Since 1993 the airport was planned with the same data like the current data today.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #264
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He does it again.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #265
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He does it again.
Too bad that you do not get all the fans you desperately want for your ICE as deluxe RE plan.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
You dive into a common problem, not specific for Berlin, but valid for the culture of our days. You can see this easily in the predictions of financial partners, public institutions, etc. For instance the official prediction on the oil price development of your home country is about as meaningful like to ask somebody at random on the street. 2004 the prediction on the oil price development was to be 25 years later the amount of 27 US-Dollar/barrel. A half year later the barrel costs was about the double. Nevertheless the officials adjusted the prediction to 57 Us-Dollars in 25 years. Do you know the current price? Do you see how ridiculous this is? Public affairs are often and economics almost always pure speculative. They are always based on data from the last years with strong difficulties to look into the future, but without faith to say that they have no idea of what the future will be about. In Berlin it was difficult to make any predictions in Berlin after the fall of the wall as it was difficult to predict the fall of the wall itself. But that is normal and it is really an old hat. Donīt you like to arrive into the present. Since 1993 the airport was planned with the same data like the current data today.
Most projects in and around Berlin since the Reunification are more about restoring the historical rightful place of Berlin above anything else, including speculations and grossly optimistic economic forecasts.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #267
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Yes, thatīs a nice description of your view. But impartiality is something else. I lived almost eleven years in Berlin and it is really annoying for me to read jaundicies from your side, as if there would be no other challenges there than something like your virtual image of a historical rightful place. You describe yourself as american expatriate, now living in Germany, currently in Cologne and born 1977. Posting no personal experiences on Berlin but always reiterating the same few statements, predominantly impolite. Do you really think I could give you a minimum of authority? Go to Berlin for a couple of month and start to get in touch with reality and see how many projects are going to happen there. Perhaps there will be one or two which would be interesting for you as something you could experience not virtual but in reality.
Good night!
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Old December 15th, 2010, 09:38 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
Yes, thatīs a nice description of your view. But impartiality is something else. I lived almost eleven years in Berlin and it is really annoying for me to read jaundicies from your side, as if there would be no other challenges there than something like your virtual image of a historical rightful place. You describe yourself as american expatriate, now living in Germany, currently in Cologne and born 1977. Posting no personal experiences on Berlin but always reiterating the same few statements, predominantly impolite. Do you really think I could give you a minimum of authority? Go to Berlin for a couple of month and start to get in touch with reality and see how many projects are going to happen there. Perhaps there will be one or two which would be interesting for you as something you could experience not virtual but in reality.
Good night!
It will be even more annoying for you to learn that I actually spent a couple of months in Berlin. It is not only you who has been "everywhere" in Germany. Again, as I said previously, you claim of you being everywhere in Germany is just your claim. But then my couple of months in Berlin would not allow me to create the historical right place so many Germans harbor in their hearts for decades. Please post your euphoric experiences in Berlin to turn this thread into "Everybody Loves Berlin: The Aviation Edition."

Nothing is impolite as long as someone is defending your love for Berlin:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
I never claimed any undying love, I am merely correcting the bullshit you're littering this thread with. I don't know if it's caused by a short dick syndrome or you have once been raped in Berlin, but it's generally unwhise to let yourself be guided by personal hatred for something similar. Makes yourself look preposterous.
Do yourself a favor, save the comment on being impolite for the more deserving someone. Deal with it, not everyone loves Berlin.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 16th, 2010 at 12:25 AM.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 10:49 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
This plan was not presented as a modual masterplan.
http://t3.************/images?q=tbn:N...10044o.jpg&t=1
There was even an animated 3D video showing how this fully realized plan would work with a final completion date way before 2010.
Okay, let me get this straight: the source for the claimed repeated downscaling of the airport is one single image, plus your personal assertion that an associated 3D video, which cannot be found anymore and was around more than ten years ago, proofs that initially there was a masterplan that was not modularized and was rejected during the planning process? All without any sources, but coming from your own memorization? You're f***ing kidding me.

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Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
What is mentioned in #254 is not all expansions, especially those additional structures within the terminal building.
Okay, let me guess: as not every single item mentioned is providing additional capacity, this is a clear sign of another repeated downscaling of the airport, right?

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Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
Why should I admit that I am wrong when I am not and am not infatuated with Berlin? While what I wrote is not kindergarten-grade, someoneīs comments simply sound like some vulgar and vicious fraternity boys. Someone else is clearly obsessed with male genital sizes.
Well, if the mentioned possible causes are not explaining your obvious hatred for everything that is somehow connected to Berlin, this leads to the conclusion that the reasons for that almost pathological dislike are more deep-routing. Pretty worrysome, if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
Please post your euphoric experiences in Berlin to turn this thread into "Everybody Loves Berlin: The Aviation Edition." [...] Deal with it, not everyone loves Berlin.
For someone who's every single post in this topic had a negative tone, everyone not joining into your tirade must look like having a deep love for the city. I understand that.

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Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
I am no master in front you in the arena of adjusting claims.
Again, where? And try to comprehend what this question is corresponding to this time. That is, if that is within your mental capabilities. After all, you showed us already, it's a little difficult for you.

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Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
Casting pearls before swines, indeed.
No, thanks. If you feel the need to support your credibility in this board by pointing out alleged grammar errors in what is not the contributors mother language, at least try to get your native language's facts straight. Otherwhise, it just adds to that pitty impression of yours.

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Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
You describe yourself as american expatriate, now living in Germany, currently in Cologne and born 1977.
That explains a lot. You have that same kind of i-know-it-better-than-you-native-idiot guys here in Moscow as well. Luckily, not all american expats are such an embarassment to their country.

Last edited by Dase; December 16th, 2010 at 11:23 AM.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 12:24 PM   #270
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Berlin is an amazing city. Being from and currently living back in Australia, my time residing in Europe for a few years really was an eye opener. Berlin, although not 'pretty', has an extremely good energy about it with so much to experience, and so much potential to be unlocked. Berlin is in fact my favourite European city, along with Munich, which offer so much in their own way.

Berlin may lack the Financial and general business climate yet to really make it a strong competitor on the corporate landscape, but its potential is definately there. Other cities in Germany have had a lot longer to rebuild, re-energise and being richer for it, wheras Berlin was at the centre of so many of the issues of the past century.

As for the airport, it is an extremely important project, giving Berlin a chance to finally have a facility that can take the city to the next level. It wont happen overnight, but over time, things will start to favour Berlin a lot more than they have to date.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 12:51 PM   #271
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Well, the airport is the front door to any city, so if you haven't got a decent airport you are always going to be on the back foot for outside investment and tourism. Well done Berlin.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 04:50 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7772003 View Post
... that I actually spent a couple of months in Berlin. ...
That gives me pleasure , perhaps you take the opportunity being at the coalface and book a construction site tour.
And perhaps you like to take some pictures and share with us in this thread .

By the way: On Monday 20th december the Berlin Airports expect passenger no. 22.000.000 in this year.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 05:06 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by way of thinking View Post
That gives me pleasure , perhaps you take the opportunity being at the coalface and book a construction site tour.
And perhaps you like to take some pictures and share with us in this thread .

By the way: On Monday 20th december the Berlin Airports expect passenger no. 22.000.000 in this year.
Not really.

Many major airports worldwide record growth this year, by the way.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 05:13 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Dase View Post
Okay, let me get this straight: the source for the claimed repeated downscaling of the airport is one single image, plus your personal assertion that an associated 3D video, which cannot be found anymore and was around more than ten years ago, proofs that initially there was a masterplan that was not modularized and was rejected during the planning process? All without any sources, but coming from your own memorization? You're f***ing kidding me.



Okay, let me guess: as not every single item mentioned is providing additional capacity, this is a clear sign of another repeated downscaling of the airport, right?



Well, if the mentioned possible causes are not explaining your obvious hatred for everything that is somehow connected to Berlin, this leads to the conclusion that the reasons for that almost pathological dislike are more deep-routing. Pretty worrysome, if you ask me.



For someone who's every single post in this topic had a negative tone, everyone not joining into your tirade must look like having a deep love for the city. I understand that.



Again, where? And try to comprehend what this question is corresponding to this time. That is, if that is within your mental capabilities. After all, you showed us already, it's a little difficult for you.



No, thanks. If you feel the need to support your credibility in this board by pointing out alleged grammar errors in what is not the contributors mother language, at least try to get your native language's facts straight. Otherwhise, it just adds to that pitty impression of yours.



That explains a lot. You have that same kind of i-know-it-better-than-you-native-idiot guys here in Moscow as well. Luckily, not all american expats are such an embarassment to their country.
Of course, I know the expression of "pearls before swine." I also know how Germans themselves talk about how their compatriots embarass themselves to death worldwide, beginning with Mallorca. I have seen how plenty of those "know-in-all" Germans behaving so badly myself in various part of the world.

There is only really one swine in this thread; it is the fanatic Berlin lover "Dase" who instantly develops lunatic hatred for everyone who is not loving Berlin to death.

Melb_aviator and I keep talking about how we feel differently about Berlin, but it is you behaving like a dog with rabies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
...
I don't know if it's caused by a short dick syndrome or you have once been raped in Berlin, but it's generally unwhise to let yourself be guided by personal hatred for something similar. Makes yourself look preposterous.
...
Deal with it, loser, Berlin is not even Rome, Madrid, etc. Your heart must be hemorrhaging nonstop to see Iberia and Madrid have developed a fantastic intercontiental network out of Madrid, Dase the sociopath. Unfortunately, you would not get an Oscars for your lunatic behaviors in this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWDfCcL4SYk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOLypkY8LMc&NR=1

No cities in Germany have been subsidized with such obscene amount of money during the Cold War and after the Reunification. With the kind of money being flooded over, all Berlin has to deliver is reconstructions. The obscene amount of money was meant to make the far-fatched "London/Paris/Berlin" dream come true.

Of course, it bursts your bubbles hard when I say Qantas will not fly their B787s to Berlin and you just have to say that it is negative to make yourself feel better. It is much more likely that CX will fly to MUC first or FRA 2x daily before BER. CX loves shuttle frequencies to REAL global gateway, such as 4x daily to JFK. It is much more likely for CX to have the 5th daily flight to JFK, extra summer flights to AMS, etc. than any flights to BER.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 17th, 2010 at 01:30 AM.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 06:05 PM   #275
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It would be nice if you could move that discussion somewhere else so that people interested in this airport can still enjoy it this otherwise very interesting thread.

I doubt that the mud slinging on the last 2 pages is of any interest for those not directly involved.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 06:21 PM   #276
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That's what I love about developed countries. They launch the projects, give a deadline and they actually meet them!

BBI is looking fantastic, I landed in Schönefeld last September and the main terminal building was already getting recognizable. How long is it gonna take until the airport is finished? And what are the plans for SXF and TXL?

I hope we get a direct connection to South America from this airport, which is rather unlikely (but I'm still hoping to see it)!
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Old December 16th, 2010, 08:31 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muc View Post
It would be nice if you could move that discussion somewhere else so that people interested in this airport can still enjoy it this otherwise very interesting thread.

I doubt that the mud slinging on the last 2 pages is of any interest for those not directly involved.
Yes, let's move somewhere else.
Does anyone know if any major airline is really interested in long haul flights from the new airport?
Since Berlin has only european flights now, it would be a great improvement for the town.
I do not think Lufthansa will do so...
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Old December 16th, 2010, 10:37 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godetto View Post
Yes, let's move somewhere else.
Does anyone know if any major airline is really interested in long haul flights from the new airport?
Since Berlin has only european flights now, it would be a great improvement for the town.
I do not think Lufthansa will do so...
The major airline will be Air Berlin. The main hub at the moment is TXL wich is increasing time by time. The airline is working through the new airport.

Besides, AB announced that they want to join to ONEWORLD (OW) alliance in 2012. It seems that the BBI will grow to an intercontinental OW hub.

So, Berlin would be the most eastern city in the western european countries wich is saved by ONEWORLD, further it lays in the center of europe. Consequently, Berlin is the best city for OW to connect europe with asia.

Currently they are serving Dubai, Miami, Mombasa, Bangkok, Punta Cana, Varadero and Phuket from TXL. In future they will add New York JFK and want to expand through intercontinental routes ex Berlin. OW airlines, like American Airlines or Qantas announced also that they would want to join Berlin in future.

At the moment Delta Airlines and Continental Airlines are flying to Berlin from the US, also Hainan Airlines, a partner Airline of Air Berlin, connect Berlin with Beijing. Other intercontinental airlines are for example Qatar Airways, Mongolian Airlines and Royal Jordanian (begins summer 2011).
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Last edited by KrauseGlucke; December 17th, 2010 at 01:53 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2010, 01:34 AM   #279
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Quote:
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It would be nice if you could move that discussion somewhere else so that people interested in this airport can still enjoy it this otherwise very interesting thread.

I doubt that the mud slinging on the last 2 pages is of any interest for those not directly involved.
Tell that to Dase, and those people who think the poor-but-sexy Berlin is so much classier than the supposedly vulgar and nouveau-rich Asian cities. When someone comments that the architecture of BER is not monumental enough, it just pushes some people to the edge of nervous breakdown here.

Last edited by aab7772003; December 17th, 2010 at 09:37 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2010, 01:56 AM   #280
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The discussion ends here now. Anymore, and it will earn you a trip to the penalty box. And saying you didn't see this post isn't an excuse: ignorance is not tolerated.

Let's get back to the news and development of the overall airport. Thanks to those who have tried to bring this discussion back to where it was originally.
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